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Andrew Calcutt

Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« on: February 27, 2012, 06:05:55 PM »
Longer ago than me, mobsters dumped strange waste and the carcasses of enemies into a landfill on Ferry Point in the Bronx.  Then the time was right for a new municipal golf development in New York City.  In the late '90s, plans were laid for a golf development over the 'Old Ferry' toxic muck.  It wasn't meant to be right away.  Environmental justice stalled the project and the first developer failed to balance his checkbook.

In 2007, after the project found newness, it was put to the highest bidder.  Donald Trump -- a man, who in some eyes, has yet to complete a project available to good taste and fair dealing -- won the bid.  Not even Tammany Hall could have devised such a wool-stealing scheme of these proportions.  And yet, the public was aware, and the votes were cast in favor.  "All Hail Lord Trump!"   Why would Mayor Bloomberg not want his legacy golf development to be built in a design homage to his home club (the National) so that the public could enjoy one of the finest courses in the land?  How silly Joe Public, Mr. Trump wants to build a course fit for major championships on a bed of public dollars.

To accompany Trump, the brownfield canvass was awarded to the most-majors-architect, a man with the artistic ability of a bear.  Do we really need another high-fade-heavy-spin designed architectural abomination where the public can lose its fortune in golf balls? Will the public even be able to afford to lose its plastic sack of 50 cent water-retrieved-balls on this "championship course"? 

The opportunity seemed great for a new era of municipal golf development.  Instead, logic was buried in the depths of the methane-infested landfill, and far beneath the deep divots of, (what surely will be), some over-watered fairways.  Early renderings of the course feature mounding that looks more like the work of an enthusiastic chest augmenting surgeon than a handsome riverside parkland golf course.  And past the rough, a '70s pornstar look, so that golf balls can be swallowed whole.  "All Hail Linda Lovelace!"

Icing on a birthday cake made of feces: A ten million dollar clubhouse to air condition the back sweat of slightly overweight investment bankers in Barney's golf shorts, not the average man's damp Dockers.  It's as if public golf in America was destined to cut off another path for growing the game of golf beyond the stagnant 26 million players.  The greens fees will likely be more in line with the dinner receipts of lower-Manhattan private equity denizens than the sanitation worker in Riverdale.

My only hope remains, amongst my lewd cynicism, that the greens fees will be around $40, as was proposed early in the project's press releases.  And maybe the routing will allow me to walk rather than take a ride on a magical golf cart tour of an overpriced excavation project.  We don't need another $75-per-round (local's discount) Harbor Shores (Benton Harbor, Michigan) built in the midst of pollution and American poverty, especially if the project's beneficiaries are going to be the same people that already bilked  tax payers in the banking crisis.

Further reading:

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/jan/13/trump-goes-his-gut-ferry-point/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574449402598061912.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-collins/donald-trump-hits-hole-in_b_1216505.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/nyregion/plan-for-trump-to-run-bronx-golf-course-has-critics.html

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 07:26:04 PM »
Tell us how you really feel about it, Andrew.

Can't wait to see how long your title stays up here.

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 07:52:44 PM »
Maybe Jimmy Hoffas in there too?

Great rant, welcome aboard.
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 08:02:57 PM »
It reminds me how lucky I am to live in SE Virginia, where there are a couple of good courses and several reasonable courses .. w/o having to mortgage the house again.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 08:09:52 PM »
Andrew,

This project has been discussed here in a lengthy thread that started in 2002:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,4764.0.html
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 08:38:32 PM »
you go Andrew!

unfortunately, I wouldn't be much on a $40 green fee :-\
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 08:46:56 PM »
Bravo!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 08:53:17 PM »
Knowing nothing of this project (which is shame on me since I spend two days in Manhattan each week), isn't "castrate public" a little strong when referring to a golf course development?  I guess you're hopeful for $40 greens fees, but castration?  Come on.

Jeff Loh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 09:14:41 PM »
Well said!! I'll stick to Split Rock....

Sam Morrow

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 09:37:05 PM »
So Trump and Nicklaus are going to cut off my balls?

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 09:50:01 PM »
Andrew,
Feel free to speak your peace, I don´t know much about the particulars but things have got to change, these type of developments are what has got golf into its current state and getting out of such a hole will not be a solution if the public continues to support these frequently traveled roads. There are enough sugar coated threads on this site, your emotions come out in your writting and I find them a breath of fresh air!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 10:37:17 PM »
Speak your piece?

Dude, I'll take another $75 course any day of the week, nuts or not. Eventually the price will come down, as water finds its own level. No course actually raises its rates in this climate. Build Ferry Point faster! and stay away from my huevos.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 11:05:21 PM »
Don't have much time to respond in detail this week, but, The National is NOT Mayor Bloomberg's home course.

But, Deepdale might be.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 11:13:44 PM »
The greens fees will likely be more in line with the dinner receipts of lower-Manhattan private equity denizens than the sanitation worker in Riverdale.


Andrew,

I think the sanitation worker in Riverdale is doing just fine:

City workers enjoyed steady employment through the recession, killer benefits and a generous pension package. Then there's the pay. 315 sanitation workers earned over $100,000 in 2009, according to SeeThroughNY. The top guy, John Doherty, earned $205,180.

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-12-30/news/30025457_1_sanitation-workers-snow-removal-city-workers#ixzz1ne62C8q9

And the bus driver who will drive the bus over the Whitestone is doing okay too:

Another shocking report by SeeThroughNY reveals that 8,074 MTA employees earned $100,000 last year. Fifty MTA employees earned more than $200,000 last year. And salaries are rising.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mta-salaries-2010-6##ixzz1ne6JuIEj

My friend John is a retired fireman after 20 years. He lives in my building on the East Side, is a great guy, and he probably does not have the time to play Trump's new course as he has a condo on a course in the Dominican Republic (his wife is Dominican) and a condo at Crystal Springs in NJ:

http://www.crystalgolfresort.com/golf/

Not criticizing anyone, but the concept that the municipal worker in NYC can't afford an occasional splurge of $75 for a green fee is simply incorrect. Pelham is already $53 (tee time fee and parking fee) for resident walkers on weekends:

http://www.nycteetimes.com/rates.php



Sam Morrow

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 11:16:59 PM »
New York courses have a parking fee on top of the green fee?

Jim Nugent

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 11:35:20 PM »
The NYT article says someone, mostly government, will spend around $180 million on this project.  An atrocity, that makes the Chambers Bay mess look like brilliant planning and management.  Who makes these decisions to throw tens or hundreds of millions of public dollars at golf?  

BTW, as I recall CB has to charge north of $200 per round to break even.  If this course costs 8 times as much to build, how much will it have to charge?  

ETA: Andrew, I enjoyed your first post!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 11:38:08 PM by Jim Nugent »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 02:05:01 AM »
How did the city of New York and the Wollman Rink fiasco turn out when Trump got involved ?

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 06:05:13 AM »
Can't say I am familiar with the politics, but a seething piece of quality writing nonetheless.

The mere mention of Trump will always bring a lot of people to your side right away, although I must confess to have played and enjoyed a number of courses with Nicklaus's name attached, whether or not he actually had much influence on the final product.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 09:14:38 AM »
Andrew,

While I might have preferred a different developer and GCA if given my druthers, what's wrong with another decent municipal facility in NY?  It's been 16 years since I hightailed it out of town, but as I recall there aren't many good public golf options within an hours drive of Manhattan.  $75 in the Bronx for a decent round sounds like a pretty good deal to me.  FYI-real estate in NY is expensive, even after the bubble burst. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 09:43:27 AM »
My theory is that government is going to spend our money one way or the other.  At least let's get something tangible out of it.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Sam Morrow

Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2012, 09:56:18 AM »
My theory is that government is going to spend our money one way or the other.  At least let's get something tangible out of it.

Bogey

I like it. I'd rather they build a course instead of sending 2 billion to Eastbumfuckistan.

M. Shea Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 10:34:01 AM »
Mike-

My home course growing up was Douglaston Golf Club (Douglaston, Queens) It is my 15 year old brother's home course right now.

Mon-Fri Juniors play for 7.50. Has been that way for 15 plus years.

 Here's to hoping the local guys (and when I say local guys that does not only include sanitation workers from the South Bronx, that  includes school teachers from Astoria, iron workers from Belrose Terrace, electricians from Little Neck, etc) can take their son or daughter there and not get destroyed.

However, with the amount of money that seems to be going in, the big ticket per round seems inevitable.

It would have been exciting to see this project go in the direction of building a place of recreation for NYC residents so they can re-charge their batteries and go get em at work the next day, and or be a place committed to helping NYC youth through golf. The Mayor could have even promoted his campaign on obesity making Ferry Point walking only ;)

Instead Trump and a million dollar headline get the press.

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2012, 10:59:48 AM »
If one enjoys fiction, this is is a heckuva rant.

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2012, 12:54:57 PM »
Looked at it.  If DT can make it work for $75, best of luck & more power to him.

BK

Bill Crane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump Nicklaus Team Up in Scheme to Castrate Public
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2012, 01:07:19 PM »
There is a Michael Bloomberg on Ghin who has an 18.1 index and belongs to Atlantic, G C  of Purchase and Floridian.  Public record.  Only posted 6 scores, none since 09.
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