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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most disappointing \
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2012, 03:35:03 PM »
One of the fascinations of this site is the way certain holes and certain courses cause such different judgments to be made by people who, in so mant other ways, have similar tastes.  I am yet to play a course recommended by Sean Arble and not enjoy it.  His love for Pennard and Kington has led me to play two courses it is difficult not to fall in love with.  All those "second tier" English clubs he profiles?  Not (yet) a disappointment amongst them.  So why is it that he (and others) and I have such different opinions of a course like Muirfield?  In particular, the 9th, which now has three mentions on this thread, including from Sean and Ran.  For me it's a great par 5 (one of three on that course).  A tee shot that requires you to choose between taking on the LHS fairway bunker or playing safely right.  A second that, if you have played safe with your tee shot, requires further fairway bunkering to be taken on, or the OOB to be hit towards.  A heavily bunkered green (from the RHS) that rewards the player who has put his second close to the OOB.  Without a wind, it's reachable in 2 by many.  With the prevailing westerly all of those shots are played into the wind.  It's not, perhaps, as good as 5 or 17 but very few are.  Disappointing, though?  Not for me.

Mark

Its probably the case that I have very high expectations for Muirfield - a course sometimes touted as the best in GB&I.  I don't see the design distinguishing Muirfield as such a course.  There is nothing wrong with the 9th, but for it being so famous, it doesn't strike me as any better than North Berwick's 9th (just to mention a hole we spoke of not long ago).   

Tim

While I am not a fan of penal architecture, I think it a necessary element of any design, just as it is necessary to set a few questions on an exam which very few people will answer correctly.  The penal shot helps separate the men from the boys - just in case a hacker like me ever gets the idea that he is good at this game.   

Ciao

Sean- Although I understand your position I think that when the wind is added into the equation it really is nothing more than a fingers crossed hit and hope shot. That said it will be great fun to watch the pros go at it from 220 plus on Sunday with the wind swirling at this years PGA.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most disappointing \
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2012, 05:23:17 PM »
Sean,

NBWL's 9th is a very fine hole.  It is not a knock on Muirfield's third best par 5 to compare the two holes.  For me the greatness of Muirfield comes from its consistency.  You have TOC in your top 10 but regularly concede (including on this thread) that it has 5 consecutive weaker holes.  Muirfield has no weak holes and several great ones (for the avoidance of doubt I don't list 9 amongst those, quite).

Mark

Mark

TOC has so much going for it, including the all important (in my book) originality, an all world back nine, incredible variety and superb terrain that I can't even contemplate placing Muirfield alongside it. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most disappointing \
« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2012, 06:37:37 PM »
JNC - very hard to believe that you would stand by your view of Dornoch 2 v 10 if you played multiple rounds. The second is a very daunting hole, especially so early in the round and generally into the wind. The 10th does not strike fear into the heart.

Agreed. What I loved was Jon's comment on no. 2, that being you just had to hit it straight ! Not difficult to see that Jon plays a different game to the majority on here including me.

Niall

Well, I try to play a different game, but many can attest that I often don't succeed!  My point about 2 at Dornoch was that I heard so much about how fearsome it is, and I didn't see on one play.  Here's a scenario where playing the hole too well negatively affected my judgment in all likelihood.  After a few plays, I might come to appreciate how difficult Dornoch's 2nd is. 

But my thinking after one go was this: 2, 6, and 10 challenge the golfer in similar ways.  They are shorter par threes that require complete precision off the tee.  All three are rather one-dimensional off the tee, although the recovery options around these greens are more interesting.  OF THE THREE, 2 was my least favorite.  6 is brilliantly benched into the hillside, and 10 has some wild interior contours. 2's green was not as memorable, and it didn't have the same intimidating effect that the other two did. 

Remember: deeming a hole "disappointing" is purely an emotional response.  There's some logic behind it, but to me analyzing disappointment is more difficult than analyzing other opinions on golf courses.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most disappointing \
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2012, 01:40:31 PM »
Jon

I didn't play with you at Dornoch but I recall seeing you swing and you certainly play a different game to me thats for sure.

I'm not sure I've ever hit that green on my 4 or 5 plays and the fact that I've had to scrabble around to try and get par (and mostly failed) makes you aware of the consequence of missing next time round. If I was a member and played it all the time I might eventuially adopt a strategy of playing short as even if you are squint you have a decent chance of getting up and down. Anywhere off pin high has to be a lot harder. Now having said that, I'm not a member and there is nothing in the world that is going to stop me going for it.

The recovery option on 6 and 10 are generally easier (I've missed those greens plenty of times as well), you can see that from the tee therefore not the same white knuckle ride as no. 2. As you say it is an emotional response and the sense of possible doom on no. 2 is so much more IMHO.

Niall

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