[Mike Hendren]

Bogey,

My memory fades from time to time but were you not walking the course with some GCA'ers and invited to have a go at the green, wearing your street shoes no less? Didn't you hit onto the green?

Of course I could be wrong.

Bob

Bob, big wind from 2 o'clock.  Borrowed Tom Huckaby's driver and hit a nice draw that the wind dumped in the front bunker.  I recall one of the caddies yelling "golf shot" as the ball took flight.  Witnessed by Messrs. Huckaby, Duran Cirba and Childs some nine years ago. Just another WOW moment in the life of a lucky fellow.

Kindest regards,

Mike

[Bob_Huntley]

Mike,

Somehow I think it was me that got you to take the shot. Wasn't that the day that Lou Duran was 4 under after the 14th, a shot with a nine iron that flew over the green at the 15th and hit the water cooler for a double, another disaster at the 16th, a birdie at the 17th and a lost ball on 18.

The man could play.

Bob

[DMoriarty]

Mike,

Somehow I think it was me that got you to take the shot. Wasn't that the day that Lou Duran was 4 under after the 14th, a shot with a nine iron that flew over the green at the 15th and hit the water cooler for a double, another disaster at the 16th, a birdie at the 17th and a lost ball on 18.

The man could play.

Bob

That was a different day a year or so earlier, with me, Shivas, and Rich.  Don't remember what Lou did on 15 or 18, but Lou's disaster on the 16th was flying over the little peninsula to the left of the green, down onto that little rocky beach area.  I don't remember how long he was down there, but it took an under par day at CPC well out of play.

[JESII]

Isn't the "I didn't come here to lay up" mentality just a subset of the architects goal of trying to get players to try shots they think, but don't know, they can pull off? Isn't that a major tenet in designing interesting and fun golf holes?

Do or die
Risk / reward
strategic intent

All these terms ore based on the push-pull between thinking and knowing what you can do with a club and ball...ren't they?

[DMoriarty]

Jim,   I don't think so.   I think of the "I didn't come here to lay up" mentality is that when faced with a heroic, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity then one ought to go for it whether it makes sense or not and no matter how long the odds.  This doesn't seem like a balancing of considerations to me.

I think Bill captures the "I didn't come here to lay up" mentality perfectly in his post above:

And go for it off the tee is what I've done each of the two times I've played the hole, twice each time, for a total of four Titleists in the drink.   I don't hit the driver high enough to carry that far, or the 3-wood far enough.

But it never occurred to me to lay up.   One thing that did irritate me is that both times my caddy started around the cove before I hit, so I couldn't grab a third ball and 4-iron to at least finish the hole.

It never occurred to him to lay up.

[Kalen Braley]

David,

For me, it was certainly on my mind that I could lay up, but I looked at it slightly different.  

Sure it was a once in a lifetime chance to play CPC and that is awesome...but more than that, for me... it was knowing in the big scheme of things it didn't matter what I did.  I'm just a mid capper hack, I'm not playing for money, not playing for a great score, and playing perhaps the finest one shot hole in the world...I just didn't see any reason why I should layup, even though it very much occurred to me that I could.  Even if I had a good score going would anyone care if I shot 86 at CPC because I layed up or 91 because I put two in the drink?

So outside of a hitting into a wind where I knew even my best drive wouldn't have any chance in hell of getting there...I didn't see any reason not to go for it.

[George Pazin]

Jim,   I don't think so.   I think of the "I didn't come here to lay up" mentality is that when faced with a heroic, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity then one ought to go for it whether it makes sense or not and no matter how long the odds.  This doesn't seem like a balancing of considerations to me.

I think Bill captures the "I didn't come here to lay up" mentality perfectly in his post above:

And go for it off the tee is what I've done each of the two times I've played the hole, twice each time, for a total of four Titleists in the drink.   I don't hit the driver high enough to carry that far, or the 3-wood far enough.

But it never occurred to me to lay up.   One thing that did irritate me is that both times my caddy started around the cove before I hit, so I couldn't grab a third ball and 4-iron to at least finish the hole.

It never occurred to him to lay up.

The key to this type of thinking is having no reason TO lay up - i.e. no stakes, no consequences to a miss other than a bigger number on the card. Most people don't play a once-in-a-lifetime course with any regard to score (and I'd say this is the right tact to take, generally speaking). If one was a member and played it all the time, I could see approaching the tee with a lot more trepidation - protecting a score, taking a chance one wouldn't always take, etc.

I recall reading that Arnold Palmer once said to someone, in regard to the 16th, is it a great hole if you have to lay-up with a tournament on the line? I'd personally say yes, that is a big part of what makes it a great hole. Otherwise, it's just a goofy golf, try this bizarro shot for fun, hole.

[JESII]

David,

If Bill didn't even consider laying up why does he wish he could have hit his third shot with a 4 iron?

The risk/reward is heightened to the point that the risk of an 8 is worth the reward of a 3...not many other 5 stroke risks out there that I've seen...

[Patrick_Mucci]

"I didn't come all the way here to lay up!"   

Bill,

The first time I played # 16 at CPC, I had a bet with a good friend riding on the outcome.
The bet involved my individual scores at PBGC, Spyglass and CPC, and, my aggregate score for all three.
CPC was the last course to be played.
I came to # 16 in excellent shape, but, the wind was blowing in my face, the ocean spray hitting me pretty good when the caddy suggested an alternate route, a safe play.

My expression was:  "I didn't come 3,000 miles to lay up", whereupon I took my driver, hit a great low drive that ended up on the green.

I think what some who live in California forget is that those golfers who travel a great distance to play PBGC don't know if or when they'll be coming back, so the hole presents that dilemma of a one time opportunity, and do you want to be bold, or play safe.

Anyone can play safe, that's not a difficult shot, but, the thought of a bold play across the chasm, to the green, is what we all dream of, pulling off a difficult shot.

I think many, consciously or subconciously, project to our return home, when our friends will ask us: "so, how did you play # 16 ?"

Who wants to say, I played safe and made a 4 or 5 or even a 3 ?

You WANT to say, I hit a driver/3wood onto the green.
So, you attempt the shot, almost disregarding prudent medal play, in the hopes of an heroic carry and triumph over one of the most famous holes in golf.
I was so elated by the shot that I brought some people back to the spot and showed them the hole and described the shot I hit.

[Bill_McBride]

David,

If Bill didn't even consider laying up why does he wish he could have hit his third shot with a 4 iron?

The risk/reward is heightened to the point that the risk of an 8 is worth the reward of a 3...not many other 5 stroke risks out there that I've seen...

Jim, I would have laid up with the THIRD tee shot just so I could have finished the hole and posted a score.    As it was the caddies had other plans for me.   Yes, we were playing four ball matches both times at CP, but I would still like to have not been BIP after the hole was done.   

[DMoriarty]

Jim, I would have laid up with the THIRD tee shot just so I could have finished the hole and posted a score.    As it was the caddies had other plans for me.   Yes, we were playing four ball matches both times at CP, but I would still like to have not been BIP after the hole was done.   

BIP = Ball in Pacific

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I feel somewhat bad to say I think 15 is the better hole to me. 11, 15 and 16 are the holes which a few of the more special golf moments in my life took place.  There is no question 16 is really a great hole in the world of golf. It is a hole that all who love the game want to stand and be counted in their golfing lives.

[Bill_McBride]

Jim, I would have laid up with the THIRD tee shot just so I could have finished the hole and posted a score.    As it was the caddies had other plans for me.   Yes, we were playing four ball matches both times at CP, but I would still like to have not been BIP after the hole was done.   

BIP = Ball in Pacific

Only in this case.   

[Will Lozier]

It is probably sacrilege to ask the question, but is the 16th at Cypress Point really that great a hole?


Looks like Mr. Potts was correct.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47572.msg1064534.html#msg1064534


 

Funny Mac!

[Will Lozier]

...you show up at 7:30 AM, the caddie switches out your bag, you whack your opening tee shot over the hedge and you are off.  4 hours later, you cross the 17 mile drive and step in awe onto the 15th tee.  

Mike,

You should be on 15 tee an hour sooner!  Each time I've been fortunate enough to play CPC, I've seen many more deer than golfers and have gotten round in less than 3:30!  Pick up the pace!

Yes...even thought it's Cypress!

Cheers

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tiger,

One has to consider the genius of the  "routing" when discussing # 16

Going from # 14 green to # 17 tee was brilliantly effected by the use of two, highly unusual par 3's

[jkinney]

16 at Cypress really is that good ! Of the four times i've been blessed to play it, twice I didn't finish the hole because I tried to go for it with driver against too strong a wind for anything but a pured shot, which I failed to execute. BUT, twice I had memorable experiences that are clear in my mind's eye 30 years later.

The first was in the autumn of '81. A buddy and I had a 36 hole match starting first off the tee at Pebble at 6:30am, after which we drove straight to Cypress. We came to 15 all square after 32 holes, and I miraculously managed to save par from the ice plant to go one up. I laid up on 16, knowing that my buddy was now forced to go for it. He didn't make it. I was dormie and closed the match out on 17 with a half.

One year later, I was playing with members who allowed me to bring out my Nikon for my caddie to shoot my driver from the back tee on 16. The one in a million sequence happened ! I pured the driver to 18', and the caddie got the ball frozen two yards off the tee dead on line from the tee (still in the ground) to the flagstick. The photo in beautifully framed in my bathroom, and I look at it every day. Best golf shot I ever hit. Lipped out the birdie putt for par, but so what ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKinney,

That kind of special moment stays with us forever.
That's part of what makes golf so special.

You were fortunate enough to have one of your moments memorialized in a photo.

However, a photo that special deserves a more prominent residence, a residence that is more easily viewed by all.

Have a duplicate made and mounted on your front door 

Your den at the very least

[jkinney]

The problem is, Pat, everyone would think it's photoshopped !!!

[John Mayhugh]

The functional component to the rugged oceanside setting is the variability of the wind and the ocean air.  Many days going for the green makes perfect sense for most, some days it makes senses only for a few.  The conditions change and the hole changes with it.  The hole is a strong reminder of why golf is best played were conditions vary, preferably near the sea.

No offense meant to Mr. McBride, but if anything might take away from the hole it is the I didn't come here to lay up mentality.  In a way deciding despite the conditions and circumstances nullifies the strategic beauty and balance, although there is something tragically beautiful about they way the hole preys on those who wouldn't consider a layup no matter the conditions and circumstance.  Having done both, I can attest that laying up is by far the more difficult choice even when the conditions so dictate.

I think it's also important to look at the hole from the perspective of a member and not a one time visitor.  Sure, if it is one's only shot at playing the hole, most people are going for the green no matter what.  I think a hole that provides that sort of thrill is good.  But I believe hole is clearly great from a member's perspective.  The temptation is always going to be there, even if the regular player KNOWS they should be laying up.  I would love to see how members play it, especially with a good round going.

It might also make a pretty good match play hole!   

Like many people on the site, I've been fortunate to play some great courses, but it's hard to compete with the the feeling you get on that 16th tee.  I'm sure I'll sound greedy, but I hope I get to experience it again someday.


Kalen,
That makes two of us that remember my tee shot.  If only I had been a little bolder on the putt. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Pat, you are correct on the routing.

[Simon Holt]

Pat hits the nail on the head.  If you are lucky enough to play courses like Cypress people rarely ask you what you shot- certainly not first up.  They ask you about the wonder hole, in this case 16.

For reference I was on a great score for me.  Dumped 3 in the Pacific and really didn't care.  Wonderful hole at the perfect point in the round, on probably my favourite course in the world. 

The thing I really love about it is how it affects your play on the preceding holes; you know it is coming and start to think about it.  That can cause you to take your eye of the ball on say 13, 14 and certainly 15 where that statement can be taken literally.  15 is awesome but to see 16 in the corner of your vision when you look up, just before pulling the trigger, can make the mind wander.

There are only a few places in the world where that happens.  For me it is the mark of a truly great hole.

[Kevin Pallier]

I think it's very good because among other things - of it's temptation.

Whilst there is plenty of fairway to the left - I would suggest many do not even consider it because of the view from the tee. There's the lone cypress gawking at you and the  green in the distance. Notwithstanding abilitiies - I would have thought more would with the adrenaline flowing think they can get there when realistically they couldn't.

I found an intersting side fact quoted the other day - it remains the "hardest" P3 played on tour re: scoring average.

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