[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

You mention that if you had someone who knew how to build cool bunkers, High Pointe would have been even better. I don't know what bunker style you're thinking about, for High Pointe? But, to me, the bunkers as they were - in your 1988 photos - are appealing in their own way. I'm not sure High Pointe would be the same if the bunkers looked like those at Black Forest or Lost Dunes for example.

The bunkers at High Pointe were High Pointe's style, in my view; which is cool in its own right.

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

You're right, I should not have said that.  I have always been a bit sheepish about the bunkers at High Pointe because they weren't very polished ... I had never built bunkers with sand faces in my life, and it took me a while to figure out how to do it.

But, the truth of High Pointe was that the course was about the greens and the fairways, not about the bunkers.  That's always been the essence of my style, and it hasn't really changed as we got better at building bunkers; it's just that people don't focus on how the greens really set up the strategy, because the bunkers look so good they are distracting.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Exactly, Tom.

There was nothing 'distracting' about High Pointe, in my view. I think that's what I really loved about the course.

The absence of any 'flashy' bunkers is one of the coolest things High Pointe had going for it. As you say, the routing is excellent, the greens interesting... I say, nothing seemed really forced (excepted perhaps the last hole!) there.

There was an elegant simplcity about the place. Yet the course was far from simple.

[Ian Andrew]

Tom,

I'm with Jeff on this.

I really loved the fact that it emphasized the playing surfaces over the penalties.
I thought there was a purity in the presentation that I really appreciated.

[John Mayhugh]

I only got to play High Pointe once, but when I think of the course, this comes to mind right away.

[Chris_Blakely]

Tom / Kalen / Mac:

Thanks for this thread.  What great info on the course - Tom thanks for your comments.  I am glad that I got to play it a couple of years before it closed.  I had the course to myself (I walked it late in the day) and it was a wonderfull experience.

If I remember correctly, I took about 150 to 200 pictures of the course as I usually do.

I hope it is able to be reopened some day.

Chris

[George Freeman]

Tom / Kalen / Mac:

Thanks for this thread.  What great info on the course - Tom thanks for your comments.  I am glad that I got to play it a couple of years before it closed.  I had the course to myself (I walked it late in the day) and it was a wonderfull experience.

If I remember correctly, I took about 150 to 200 pictures of the course as I usually do.

I hope it is able to be reopened some day.

Chris

Chris - would you mind posting some of your pictures for people who weren't able to see the course?

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:

Can you speak a bit to the evolution of the routing?  For example, did the holes stand out when looking at the property?  Did you give any thought to starting on the southern piece (what "is" now the back nine)? 

[Chris_Blakely]

Tom / Kalen / Mac:

Thanks for this thread.  What great info on the course - Tom thanks for your comments.  I am glad that I got to play it a couple of years before it closed.  I had the course to myself (I walked it late in the day) and it was a wonderfull experience.

If I remember correctly, I took about 150 to 200 pictures of the course as I usually do.

I hope it is able to be reopened some day.

Chris

Chris - would you mind posting some of your pictures for people who weren't able to see the course?

George,

Absolutely, but you will have to bear with me as I dig up the CD I saved them on.  I have lots of pictures of lots of courses, but not the best archiving system!!! 

One of my favorite rounds of golf I have had up north.  I loved that solitary round - especially the back 9.
Chris

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

Can you speak a bit to the evolution of the routing?  For example, did the holes stand out when looking at the property?  Did you give any thought to starting on the southern piece (what "is" now the back nine)? 

Sven:

Some of the story about the routing [in particular holes 10-15] is written up in The Anatomy of a Golf Course, including the topo map for that part of the course.  From the middle of 10 fairway to just left of 15 green was a 40-acre block of ground that was clearly the most exciting part of the property, bounded on three sides by state land.  It was pretty easy to see that there was only one good way to work a golf hole up into it, as once you went west from #10 fairway the hill became very steep ... by the time you get over to #13 tee there is a 60-foot drop straight down toward the wetland and pond on #18, so it was only practical to go in where #10 is.

At first I routed some holes diagonally across this parcel, but soon realized that with the 40-acre block surrounded on three sides and the drop-off on the fourth, I needed to get as many holes as I could into the area.  A 40-acre block is 440 yards on each side ... so if you run a hole in straight south toward the back, you don't have much width left to have longer holes playing east and west ... so we wound up with four parallel holes, which wasn't bothersome at all because the topography and character of each was quite different.  After that, there was an intermediate shelf on the way back out of the property which provided a location for the 15th green; and after a bit of a hike up and over a hill, which was inevitable due to the property lines, the long par-4 16th played diagonally out of the trees.

The front nine offered more opportunity to choose what direction I wanted to go.  The holes I found most attractive were the green site for the first, the green site for the Redan fourth, the par-4 fifth across the orchard [pictured earlier], and the green site for the long par-4 eighth.  Most of the rest of the routing was a matter of connecting those dots [and trying to leave the unused land in a configuration that would make it usable for future development].  One of my favorite holes turned out to be the short par-4 seventh, which started out as some gentle and uninspiring land and just a way to get to #8 tee ... it used a small dip to create a semi-blind approach for many players, and a cool green combined with a nasty pot bunker behind it to keep good players on edge.

[Doug Wright]

Tom:

Can you speak a bit to the evolution of the routing?  For example, did the holes stand out when looking at the property?  Did you give any thought to starting on the southern piece (what "is" now the back nine)? 

The front nine offered more opportunity to choose what direction I wanted to go.  The holes I found most attractive were the green site for the first, the green site for the Redan fourth, the par-4 fifth across the orchard [pictured earlier], and the green site for the long par-4 eighth.  Most of the rest of the routing was a matter of connecting those dots [and trying to leave the unused land in a configuration that would make it usable for future development].  One of my favorite holes turned out to be the short par-4 seventh, which started out as some gentle and uninspiring land and just a way to get to #8 tee ... it used a small dip to create a semi-blind approach for many players, and a cool green combined with a nasty pot bunker behind it to keep good players on edge.

Tom, a question based on your comments above about the three green sites on the front nine--do you generally look for green sites first and look to work the routing to those green sites or is it a more organic/holistic approach; i.e., you're doing a routing (or a series of routings) and if the green sites show up while doing the routing that is great. In other words, is identifying green sites at the outset a higher priority than the routing itself or just a part of the whole process of putting the routing together? Hope this makes sense. Also you may have addressed this question before but we unlearneds are just trying to get inside your head on this stuff.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom, a question based on your comments above about the three green sites on the front nine--do you generally look for green sites first and look to work the routing to those green sites or is it a more organic/holistic approach; i.e., you're doing a routing (or a series of routings) and if the green sites show up while doing the routing that is great. In other words, is identifying green sites at the outset a higher priority than the routing itself or just a part of the whole process of putting the routing together? Hope this makes sense. Also you may have addressed this question before but we unlearneds are just trying to get inside your head on this stuff.

Doug:

In the beginning, I was looking for green sites, and High Pointe had a number of strong ones.  Nowadays, I am looking for a green site and the adjacent tee ... High Pointe had some long transitions in between, although some of that was inevitable on that piece of ground.

Really, what you look for depends on the nature of the ground.  You are looking for whatever you don't have.  If the ground is relatively gentle, or flat, you are looking for features that will be a focal point for green sites.  But if it's pretty severe, like Stone Eagle or Rock Creek or even Ballyneal, the most important thing is to find fairways that will work and where you can maintain some visibility through the green.  I am probably going to do some shaping around the greens anyway -- and rarely do you find a perfect green site anymore, because the tolerances for slope are so small -- but I don't want to shape the fairways a bunch if I don't have to.

I rarely do a bunch of different routings for a course, or at least, not at the outset; for me it is a process of continual refinement.  I may find a bunch of individual holes and try to fit them in, but I don't believe in giving the client five different choices to choose from ... I feel it's my job to narrow it down for them.  Sometimes, with that approach, I just have to start all over again, but usually I've got a few holes that I really like and it's a question of how to make the connections as good and as seamless as possible.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:

Appreciate the feedback.  I'm looking for my copy of the Anatomy to reread that section (which will probably turn into a reread of the entire book). 

Its interesting to me that the 8th was a "found" green site.  It's one feature of the course that stood out and stuck in my memory bank for nearly a decade.  How much shaping did you have to do to get to the final result?

Sven

[Tom_Doak]

Its interesting to me that the 8th was a "found" green site.  It's one feature of the course that stood out and stuck in my memory bank for nearly a decade.  How much shaping did you have to do to get to the final result?

I actually had to do a lot of shaping on #8 green ... none of those contours around it were really natural, even the bump on the right side was created.  But I loved the way the hole played toward the toe of a long slope from the left, and you looked on past it and out toward the road to Kalkaska in the far distance.  Now there's a five-story Indian casino hotel out that way!

[George Freeman]

Not the most flattering pictures of the course, but this photo tour is very complete.

http://golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Michigan/High%20Pointe/index.html

[Don_Mahaffey]

I miss High Pointe. I played it over the span of many years as my wife of 20 years was born and raised in TC and my inlaws are still there. My son and I had some of our most enjoyable rounds together at HP. Most of the courses in TC were very difficult for a youngster to play, but Ryan could always get around HP, even when he was 11 years old.

What is surprising is the owners didn't lease it out for $1 a year, just to protect their investment. Seems like the surrounding land would have more value if the course was still in operation. I know one guy who would have taken a very hard look at a deal like that.

This is the type of golf course that everyone would be clamoring to restore if it were some ODG's first design and he had personally done all the key shaping. This course has to be restored.

[Jon Heise]

Wish I could have made it out there.  We drove by it a couple years ago, chose to play Dunmaglas instead...

[Peter Pratt]

Let me be the next to weigh in on the magic of High Pointe and my sadness at its dormancy. As I have family in TC, I played HP many times. It may not be the best course I"ve ever played, but it is the most fun I've ever played. (And it's still in my top 10, ahead of several courses that are firmly in the top 100 in the world.) Each new playing revealed a new quirk or favorite hole--that is the sign of greatness. I know 18 is poo-poo'ed, but, even so, the diversity of the holes is truly rare. And there are fewer greater pleasures in golf than being the first off in the morning, on foot, at High Pointe.

I miss it a lot and hope it can be revived!

[Tim Bert]

Some more photos (circa 2008):

1 Tee


1 Green


2 Fairway


3 Tee


3 Fairway


3 Looking Back


4 Tee


4 if you come up short


4 Green


4 From behind is no bargain


5 Tee


6 Tee - I remember loving this hole!


6 Fairway


6 Green


6 Wicked sliver of a bunker

[Tim Bert]

By process of elimination, I believe the next three photos are 7, but this must be my least remembered hole on the course... maybe because I was so fond of 6 and 8?!?







8 Tee


8 Approach


4 Photos of 8 Green - need a few angles to see what is going on here








9 Tee


9 Green


10 Tee


10 Fairway


10 Green


11 Tee - Wonderful par 3!!


11 Green


12 Tee


12 Approach

[Tim Bert]

13 Tee - Wasn't a fan of the cluttered look of the tee shot here but the approach and the green was spectacular


13 Fairway


13 Green


14 Tee


14 Uphill fairway


14 Green


15 Tee


15 Green


16 Tee


16 Fairway


16 Approach


16 Green


17 Tee


17 from 16


18 Tee


18 Second shot


18 Approach

[Howard Riefs]

Tim,

A wonderful photo tour. Thanks for sharing.

It's just too bad this thread serves as a digital memorial.

[Jud_T]

Tim,

Thanks for posting these.  Probably one of my most regretful misses.  Can't believe I was beating myself up at the Bear when this was just down the road back in the day.  Thank god I was saved....

[Jeff_Mingay]

Awesome, Tim. Thanks for posting your photos, they bring back some good memories of High Pointe.

[Tim Bert]

Sorry for what appears to be a few duplicates of 18 second shot labeled as different things. They uploaded to photobucket correctly and I could have sworn the links were fine but they are messed up when viewing on my phone. I will double check this evening and try to get the right photos in place.

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