High Pointe

[Mac Plumart]

Any one got pictures of High Pointe they could post?

I've looked through the archives and I didn't find a bunch of them...a photo here or there...but nothing that gave me a real sense of the course.

[Howard Riefs]

Wish i had a chance to play it. Some photos straight from the source:

http://dev.brightbridge.net/RGD/high_pointe_golf_club/high_pointe_gallery/

[Tom_Doak]

It was already getting pretty overgrown by the time those pictures were taken.

I'll try to get someone in my office to scan a few slides from when the course was new, so you can see what it really looked like.

[Peter Pratt]

Tom,

Is there any hope of resuscitating the golf course? Every time I drive by, it breaks my heart. Even the sign is covered up.

[Mac Plumart]

It was already getting pretty overgrown by the time those pictures were taken.

I'll try to get someone in my office to scan a few slides from when the course was new, so you can see what it really looked like.

Thanks!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

You should really do that. I'd love to take a look at High Pointe in its earliest days, again.

For whatever it's worth, I recently posted this at my blog:
http://www.mingaygolfcoursedesign.blogspot.com/2012/01/ever-hear-of-high-pointe.html

[jeffwarne]

High Pointe looks like it was a course far ahead (or behind)its' time.
The 1980's weren't exactly an era of lay of the land classic architecture

Which of the below factors most caused the closing?
1. being located at one of the epicenters of the recession(Michigan)
2.lack of awareness/education (getting "it") by the paying public
3.remote location
4.overbuilding of golf courses in the area
5.mismanagement
6.all of the above
7. some of the above

Do any of those factors make reopening economically impossible?

[Tom_Doak]

High Pointe looks like it was a course far ahead (or behind)its' time.
The 1980's weren't exactly an era of lay of the land classic architecture

Which of the below factors most caused the closing?
1. being located at one of the epicenters of the recession(Michigan)
2.lack of awareness/education (getting "it") by the paying public
3.remote location
4.overbuilding of golf courses in the area
5.mismanagement
6.all of the above
7. some of the above

Do any of those factors make reopening economically impossible?

Jeff,

The correct answer is (6), all of the above.

What makes reopening impossible is that the owner [the son of our original client] thinks the land is worth $2m or $3m, which is a bit delusional -- but he doesn't need the money, so he has no incentive to sell. 

He was operating at a loss [debt free!], due to a combination of all the factors above, with a thumb on the scale at #5, so he shut it down.  At this point, it would cost a substantial amount to get it back into playable condition; they really let it go completely last year.

[Jaeger Kovich]

From about 3 weeks ago!

[Colin Macqueen]

Tom,
I am not, for a moment, trying to rub salt in the wound but does anyone know if High Pointe had the cult following that a number of your later designs have had?  Does anyone know the trajectory of the number of visitors over the years? Did it start of with a high number of rounds and fade away or what? What price were they charging a round?

I feel quite sad and a bit teary when I read about golf courses declining, becoming neglected and finally being abandoned for whatever reason. Particularly when the architecture seems to have been revered and feted. I've never understood the economics of this type of thing. I must be an incurable romantic.

Opened in 1989 "Tom Doak's first solo design was a radical departure from the trends of 1980's design -- an affordable, lay-of-the-land public course with an environmental conscience and a terrific mix of greens contours.  Twenty years later it is the forerunner of a new movement toward minimalist, sustainable design." Renaissance Golf Design.

Two or three years later it lies deserted. Vale High Pointe!

Colin

[K. Krahenbuhl]

These are a few random shots from about 4 years ago Mac.  Not great photos, but they give you an idea...

[K. Krahenbuhl]

[K. Krahenbuhl]

[Jud_T]

This just makes me really sad...

[Howard Riefs]

Trump National Traverse City

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:

Good photos.  I hope that I can find a few from 1988-89 so you can see what it looked like to the right of #11 tee -- the first photo in your last post -- when those pine trees were four feet tall, and there were a bunch of ferns growing between them. 

One of the worst mistakes I ever made in design was to not just keep going and clear all of those trees when they were small and it was cheap, and before they choked out all the ferns.  But, there were lots of golfers [including my owner!] who thought the back nine was better because it had trees.

[J_ Crisham]

Tom,   I played with Kyle that day and we both were baffled by the 18th hole- it didn't seem to  fit with the rest of the design. What was the thought process regarding the wetlands and resulting hole placement. Not trying to be insulting but it was a pretty odd finishing hole.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Don't worry too much about wondering about the 18th, it is probably the most widely criticized Doak hole ever made.  Tom has spoken about it a number of times. Your in good company.

I was fortunate enough to play High Pointe twice with a Pre-GCA bunch the included RJ Daley and John McMillan. Tom Doak even came out one day and walked with us and gave a narrative of each hole.  Pretty freaking cool.

[Howard Riefs]

Don't worry too much about wondering about the 18th, it is probably the most widely criticized Doak hole ever made.  Tom has spoken about it a number of times. Your in good company.

Is #18 in any of the above photos?  If so, which one(s)?

I was fortunate enough to play High Pointe twice with a Pre-GCA bunch the included RJ Daley and John McMillan. Tom Doak even came out one day and walked with us and gave a narrative of each hole.  Pretty freaking cool.

Very cool indeed.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Don't worry too much about wondering about the 18th, it is probably the most widely criticized Doak hole ever made.  Tom has spoken about it a number of times. Your in good company.

Is #18 in any of the above photos?  If so, which one(s)?

It's not.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Here is what Tom Doak had to say in his interview on the site....

11. Which three holes you’ve built would you most like to change? What would you change about them?

I hate the 18th at High Pointe, but most of the problems there are caused by wetlands so it can’t really be fixed the way it should — to make the landing area for the tee shot less of a carry for the average player, and give more room for the good player to hit a driver.

[J_ Crisham]

The kid could sure go deep back in the day! Amazing a difference what a couple of laminectomies does to a guys length- good to see you on the white tees these days my friend!

[Mac Plumart]

Thanks everyone.  It looks like my kind of place!

Was this course ever ranked on a Top 100 list?

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks everyone.  It looks like my kind of place!

Was this course ever ranked on a Top 100 list?

Mac:

High Pointe was in the GOLF Magazine top 100 list, for a couple of turns, back when I was still involved with the list.  There were some veiled accusations that it was there by malfeasance, which is one of the reasons I stopped being involved.  And perhaps it didn't deserve to be listed ... although it was pretty unique for its day, and the best early example of my own philosophy of design, which some people [even back then] found intriguing.

I dug up some old slides of the course this afternoon, and Sara Mess is scanning them for me today.  I will email them to whoever wants to post them up here.  I still don't have a "site" of my own on which to post photos.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

I can post those if you like.  You can email me at kbjames_70@yahoo.com

Kalen