[mark chalfant]

Any thoughts on this course in northwest  NJ.  Are there some interesting greens or standout holes. The course frequently hosts the MGA Junior. Bill Quirin speaks highly of of the 264 yard 12th. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mark,

It's a very interesting course with two distinct personalities in the form of each nine.

The back nine is especially interesting with some dramatic terrain and the river.

The "Dodge Open" used to be a nice annual event at RRCC.

It's been a while since I played it, but, I used to play it quite frequently and I always enjoyed it.
I have some fond memories of matches and rounds I played there.

In one event, as a qualifier in the last group in a tournament, I came to the last green, a nice par 5 where the golfer had to traverse the river, needing a two putt to knock all golfers with a certain score out of the tournament.  I cozied my second putt to within 6 inches of the hole and all those waiting to see if they'd play the next day had smiles on their faces.

That was many years ago, and only a few people ever knew that I had deliberately "expanded" the field.

I also had one of the greatest matches I'd seen or participated in with my dad against John Puskar and Dr Dan Rosano.
On the back nine I think a birdie won or tied every hole.
The front nine wasn't bad either
Unfortunately for us, they had one more birdie

[George_Bahto]

Patrick: about Rockaway River CC   


When I was researching for the Knoll Club’s club history I was given the name Sam Cifelli who was the 20-year superintendent at the Knoll during the reign of the Aiello Brothers - the glory days at the Knoll (from about 1943 until early 1970's) when the club was sold to Bloomfield College.

I interviewed him and he gave me a lot of insight into the early days at The Knoll.

Joe Aiello had the Knoll in tip top shape during their ownership. The brothers Aiello had purchased the property for the original 30 millionaires who originally hired Banks to build the course.

Aiello was like Dick Youngscap at Sand Hills, watching over his course like a hawk. From what I am told the place was in superb condition at all times..

Well, sometime in the 1950's the two Italians, Cifelli the super and owner Joe Aiello, had another of their (many) great fights as to how to maintain the course and Sam got fired.

Sam got hired by nearby Rockaway River CC and went on to do a masterful job of draining that property so it would be more playable (the Rockaway River would rise and bad flooding would occur on the course).

The new super at the Knoll could not match Sam’s work and the Knoll began to slip a bit.

Finally in a meeting between Cifelli and Aiello an agreement was reached and Sam returned to the Knoll. I think he was gone for about 3- 4 years. From what I was able to learn, Sam got HIS way.

But my point is that Sam was the one to get Rockaway into very playable condition.

I think the RRCC was built by one of the Purdy Brothers  -  Hal?.

[Patrick_Mucci]

George,

One of the unique aspects of playing RR was listening to the ordinance being tested at Picatinny Arsenal.

That and the smell of the nitrates from the nearby farms.

I liked the golf course, it had a unique personality with the bi-polar nines.

The 10th and 11th holes had to be one of the hardest two starting holes in NJ, especially in a medal play qualifier/event.

Double, Double wasn't unusual.

[Rory Connaughton]

Rockaway is one of my favorite places.  The back in particular has great variety and some really wonderful elevation changes. Conditioning is very very good. firm and fast.  Fun fun golf course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rory,

While I don't know that I'd classify it as a hidden gem, RR is another one of those enjoyable golf courses that fly under the radar in the Metropolitan NY area.

[Matt_Ward]

The main issue about Rockaway is what a wet spring can do to the layout. There are a few holes there that can be literally a flood when Mother Nature doesn't cooperate.

Course was smart to host the Dodge for all those years -- ditto the desire by the club to have hosted numerous MGA Jr events.

Would not call the course a sleeper -- I'd give that tag to a place like nearby Morris County in Convent Station. Still has a few holes of note. If giving a Doak number I'd say a 4.

[George_Bahto]

Pat - I hated the 10th - a second to a highly elevated green ..... certainly not one of my favorite holes in NJ

Their website claims Emmet originally built 9 holes and later Hal Purdy remodeled and added nine more holes.

Although I pass it often, I have not played there for a lot of years. Their basic membership has been many doctors working at neighboring St Clares Hospital and/or have medial offices in area. Also, many local busnessmen are members.

In all, a terrific family oriented membership with a pretty good course (for NJ)

[Patrick_Mucci]

George,

In your experience, could that river be incorporated into the hole today (permiting), the way it was when the course was originally routed ?

[Jim_Kennedy]

The info at this site matches up with some old newspaper articles that I found.
 
http://www.njsga.org/index.php?tl=news&sl=newsarchive&include=newsdetail&newsid=23

Post Gourlay and Emmet, Brian Silva laid a hand/ gave a plan to RRGC in 1985.......... "(Silva)did a master plan that is the basis for the renovations that have been done since, including the lengthening of the back tees over the past three years. The essential elements of Emmet’s work have been retained, however; if Emmet, who died in 1934, were to visit Rockaway River today, he would have no trouble recognizing his work"  

In 1970 Hal Purdy "....was hired to devise a plan for dealing with the river, which periodically spilled over its banks."  

[Jim_Kennedy]

The www.historicaerials.com site has photos from 1931 through 2007 for this club. Emmet would probably recognize the routing but I don't think he'd recognize the bunker scheme, especially after comparing the '95 aerial to all the earlier ones.

[George_Bahto]

Thanks Jim - good show!

Pat that area is really low and the Rockaway River can really come up a lot. I guess you could do something there but you would really have to move a lot of material - really not worth it, in my estimation.

We actually get a worse problem at The Knoll East. When the river is up it could mess up almost 10 percent of the course ...............................  when it recedes it seems to leave behind very little damage.

[Patrick_Mucci]

George,

Going back a number of years, I don't ever recall a drainage problem at The Knoll.

Is it a result of the nearby developments ?

[George_Bahto]

Pat - that's at the "lower" KNoll (the east - not the big course - Knoll West (what we call the "rel Knoll")

It was Gene Sarazen's idea of building the lower course (bring your helmets to play it) as an aid to covering expenses on the upper course

[Patrick_Mucci]

George,

I've never played the lower.  Driven past it a zillion times, but never had the desire to play it.

The upper was always special

I think The Knoll would be an excellent site to hold one of my GCA.com get togethers.

And, I'd like to get Tom Doak to attend and speak as well.

Can you inquire as to availability in mid to late September

[Mike Cirba]

George/Patrick,

I went to play The Knoll this past fall on a gorgeous day.

While looking out and salivating, I was told that I'd missed the 10:30am shotgun start and could wait around til 3:30 for another of nine holes.

Sadly, I made my way over to the "lower", or East course, and played there for the first time with a nice older Jewish couple who had just returned from a vacation in eastern Europe.

It is amazingly bad golf course architecture, almost hysterically funny in a way.   I should have known when the right hand side of the first hole had not one, but two high strung nets to protect golfers on adjacent greens and tees!

The funny thing is just a week prior I'd spent s a day playing Sebonack in the morning and NGLA in the afternoon, so as an old time public course guy coming back to reality at Knoll East made me chuckle as to the wonderful variety in the game, even at places where the architecture makes you scratch your head.

Did I mention I had a blast?    

[George_Bahto]

Milke at least you didn't get hit with a ball ................  that is one terible course.

Well there is one interesting shot, though: the tee-shot on the first hole where you can short-cut the dog-leg left and hit the ball over the corner of the roadway and the cars using it, hoping you don't have a car comig your way at the time 

I don't know the acreage off the top of my head but it must be about 75 acres at best

[Mike Cirba]

George,

How about the bunkering?   Pretty stellar, eh?

Steep and deep?   Howzabout a good six inches or so below the surrounding terrain! 

Also loved the par five where it runs out of room to drive it, makes a hard right turn down a narrow chute along the edge of the property. 

If we had a GCA outing, perhaps we could use the Knoll East to provide striking examples on what NOT to do. 

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

The contrast between Knoll East and Knoll West is like the gap you see with Grand Canyon -- huge and deep !

[Keith Phillips]

I played Rockaway River today for the first time and was very pleasantly surprised - I gather the club had a very difficult 2011 due to the heavy rainfall and flooding, but conditions today were terrific and the course showed very well.  There is a good blend of long and short holes, and the terrain is very interesting, particularly on the back nine, as Pat had pointed out.  The course opens 'long' with a par-5-4-4-5 configuration and holes of 565, 403, 410 and 546 (all white tees)...these are all on flattish ground, and played long today in the cold October air.  #5 is a short 296-yard par 4 dogleg left, then 6 is a 180-yard par 3 playing 10+ yards longer as it is slightly uphill.  This is the first of three 'longish' par 3s, capped by the 212-yard 11th which is just a bear, although it plays to the only flat green on the course.  The 10th hole is a tough one, a 413-yard dogleg left par 4 with a long second playing straight uphill - I played Apawamis this weekend, and the rise on #10 at RR is almost is great as the hill on #2 at Apawamis, but the Rockaway River hole is 100 yards longer!  #12 is a great driveable par 4 at 254 yards modestly uphill, and 13, 16 and 17 are also fun short par-4s.  All told, this was a really fun course, one I could happily play every day!

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