How GCA groupthink gets over it's Trump issue

« **on:** February 16, 2012, 07:51:34 PM »

From the new issue of Links Magazine in an article about Jim Urbina entitled "Ready to Solo":

"And what if the client is Donald Trump? One surprising rumor (which did not come from the architect himself, but which he did not dispel) has Urbina on the short list for a third layout at the real estate mogul's Bedminster, New Jersey, facility. Would this man who revels in analyzing Tillinghast [referring to the previous discussion of Paramount] be comfortable building blingy waterfalls for The Donald? Probably not, though to be fair to Trump, his future intentions for the Bedminster property are not known."

!!!??!!!

« **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2012, 08:21:48 PM »

It is not the Trump, but rather, the golf courses the Trump has preferred to commission to date. The Trump is not our concern. Should Urbina (or any other purported minimalist/classicist) be hired by the Trump, open the flood gates shall be.

« **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2012, 08:47:29 PM »

I think it would be great and I hope Jim gets the job.

« **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2012, 10:26:44 PM »

It is the Trump to me. Much like a bad owner in baseball or football. Trump cannot shut up and let his people do their job without giving the appearance he is doing their job for them. There are worse though. It would be a Trump that does not pay. Those kind exist too. He is an old crazy ego maniac. He will not change not does he see a need too. He just get worse with age.

« **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2012, 11:15:05 PM »

Jud,

I must have missed them when I played at Bedminster, but, where exactly are those waterfalls you're refering to ?

Tiger,

On the occassions that I asked employees how it was to work for Trum,p at various golf courses, to the person, they all had positive things to say.

Some of the things that make him successful is his attention to detail and the desire to produce a quality product.
I don't think you can fault him on either.

In the times that I've talked to him he was very gracious, sane and reserved.
Perhaps he's "on" when the cameras are on.

He may have his faults, but he's produced good golf courses, maintains them well and provides his members with a quality product.

Sometimes we have to give the devil his due

« **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2012, 11:27:39 PM »

Donald Trump is to golf what Marc Cuban is to the NBA. He draws attention to the game and love him or hate him he makes the game bigger. Trump loves golf, he has a true passion for it, we should celebrate that. He is no Mike Keiser, but who is?

« **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2012, 11:36:33 PM »

« **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2012, 11:38:37 PM »

« **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2012, 11:38:59 PM »

« **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2012, 12:47:25 AM »

In this economy, I'd wish JU or whoever has a shot at design-building a course, gets the work. As for Trump's irrepressible and unrestrained egotistical antics, I'd just hope JU or whoever is the archie, has a solid contract with language that protects the architect if Trump's ego and bombastic inclinations demand architectural features that would taint or embarrass the archie. I'd advise that there is a some sort of clause that the archie can disavow features not approved or supported by the archie, if Trump demands something over the top and unprofessional or not part of the design repetoire of the archie.

Personally, I don't care what sort of opportunity a Trump project offered, I wouldn't want to be associated with the blowhard huckster. I'd rather do interstate road grading to tide me over and hope a better GC developer client came along.

« **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:28:17 AM »

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 16, 2012, 11:15:05 PM

Jud,

I must have missed them when I played at Bedminster, but, where exactly are those waterfalls you're refering to ?

Pat,

It's a direct quote from the article, hence the reference and the quotation marks.

« **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2012, 08:06:54 AM »

Quote from: RJ_Daley on February 17, 2012, 12:47:25 AM

In this economy, I'd wish JU or whoever has a shot at design-building a course, gets the work. As for Trump's irrepressible and unrestrained egotistical antics, I'd just hope JU or whoever is the archie, has a solid contract with language that protects the architect if Trump's ego and bombastic inclinations demand architectural features that would taint or embarrass the archie. I'd advise that there is a some sort of clause that the archie can disavow features not approved or supported by the archie, if Trump demands something over the top and unprofessional or not part of the design repetoire of the archie.

I am sure demanding such a contract would get you the job!

« **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2012, 08:53:51 AM »

I hope Jim gets the job (even if its just a rumor now). Assuming the rumor is true and Trump is considering Jim because he appreciates his work that would be great news.

« **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2012, 09:09:06 AM »

I tried to post some of these thoughts last night around midnight but had some unsuccesful attempts (cast on wrist, painmeds, midnight...not a good mix

)

Anyway, I'll try again with a clear mind.

Trump just might be on the verge of a breakthrough in the golf world. His "Great Dunes of Scotland" looks pretty cool. If he hires Jim, that would be HUGE for Mr. Trump.

I would like to see him back off the over-the-top self promotion, think renaming the land his course is on "The Great Dunes of Scotland" and putting his name on every course, and let the work speak for itself.

Anyway, I am crossing my fingers...but not holding my breath...that he is on the verge of something cool for the game.

« **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2012, 09:59:23 AM »

I've had the pleasure of working closely with Jim recently and I can tell you he is more than capable of building a world class waterfall! I seem to remember another thread discussing the log flume he built on the first hole at Paramount.

In all seriousness... I agree with Pat. I don't really remember seeing any waterfalls on the golf course at Bedminster. I think there is one alongside the entrance drive....?

I have no idea if any of the Urbina and Trump chatter is true.... but if it is, I imagine Mr. Trump would be very proud of what Jim can produce.

« **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2012, 09:06:43 PM »

Schwing!

Is the Donald on a roll?

http://golfweek.com/news/2012/feb/24/trumps-doral-vision-includes-tougher-monster/

Scottish links golf;
Urbina?
Hanse!!

Hmmm...

« **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2012, 09:23:43 PM »

Jud,

Giving some more thought to your title, I think this is a great question. Because assuming he continues to build (or buy and renovate) more courses I think it is more likely that Donald moves closer to "CGA groupthink".

He clearly has used Fazio many times to build really good golf courses. But Trump is also a golfer, and the beauty and enjoyable style of many "CGA favorites" is undeniable. So as Donald plays these courses, I think it is only natural that he'll want to have courses in a variety of styles. I could easily see why he would want JU to build a third course in Bedminster to offer a unique option for his members.

« **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:06:39 PM »

Mac-
Glad that's public knowledge now. I was on a flight to Florida last month and none other than Gil was across the aisle. He told me he was heading to Doral and I desperately wanted to scoop it here but figured the news would come out in due time. He seemed really excited about the prospect!

« **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:41:02 PM »

all while "making the landing areas and greens more receptive for resort golfers"

« **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:49:49 PM »

I played Doral fairly recently and I think it could be something pretty special. Heck, I enjoyed it as it was...but can't wait to see it after Gil works his magic.

« **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2012, 11:24:57 PM »

I didn't know that there was room for another 18 hole course at Bedminster.

Maybe someone can enlighten us.

« **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2012, 10:27:45 AM »

Let's look at it another way .... as the Trump Consumer that has plunked out a lot of $$$$ to belong to one of his courses. I now have every expectation to have immaculately manicured turf and bunkers, all sorts of attentive personnel catering to my every whim, ProV1's to hit on the range .... don't I?

For me, I am just uncomfortable with all that.

« **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2012, 10:59:42 AM »

Past performance is 100% indicitave of past performance.

« **Reply #23 on:** February 26, 2012, 02:40:35 PM »

Quote from: Carl Rogers on February 25, 2012, 10:27:45 AM

Let's look at it another way .... as the Trump Consumer that has plunked out a lot of $$$$ to belong to one of his courses. I now have every expectation to have immaculately manicured turf and bunkers, all sorts of attentive personnel catering to my every whim, ProV1's to hit on the range .... don't I?

For me, I am just uncomfortable with all that.

Carl,

If you joined Trump Palm Beach this past year you didn't plunk down anything.

And since when has anyone been uncomfortable with a well conditioned course that plays fast and firm ?

Why are those conditions acceptable at Pine Valley, Augusta, NGLA, GCGC and other iconic clubs, but not OK at Trump's courses ?

News:

Jud_T

Ronald Montesano

Bill Brightly

Tiger_Bernhardt

Patrick_Mucci

Emile Bonfiglio

Mac Plumart

Mac Plumart

Mac Plumart

RJ_Daley

Jud_T

Tom_Doak

PCCraig

Mac Plumart

Brian Chapin

Mac Plumart

Bill Brightly

Jason Walker

jeffwarne

Mac Plumart

Patrick_Mucci

Carl Rogers

Mac Plumart

Patrick_Mucci

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