[Mark Saltzman]

They've been working on getting their state-by-state rankings up to date.  They have 8 states done:

http://www.top100golfcourses.co.uk/htmlsite/story.asp?id=396

Thoughts?

[Sam Morrow]

I stopped when I saw Kiva Dunes didn't make the Top 10 in Alabama.

[Bart Bradley]

Wow, absolutely meaningless.  Eagle Point 3rd best in N. Carolina?

Bart

[hhuffines]

Champion Hills?

[Andy Troeger]

The Arizona list is pretty good really. The biggest problem I have with the Digest list is the exclusion of We-Ko-Pa Saguaro which is easily in the top ten here. The inclusion of the Boulders surprises me, but others here recommend it. AZ is a bit of an odd state to rank IMO because there's very little at the very top--nothing that would be top 50 USA for example, but a lot of Doak 6 courses that I would rank as being comparable to each other. Forest Highlands and Saguaro separate themselves a little bit for me, with Estancia 3rd. I've come to accept being an outlier on Desert Forest given that a lot of folks really like it.  

I'm not that familiar with the other states they chose. The California courses I've played seem reasonable, with Sherwood a bit too low. The North Carolina list is the one that's off, as Bart stated. Eagle Point too high and Dormie and Tobacco Road WAY too low. No way Forest Creek South is close to either one of them (the North on the other hand is just as good as Eagle Point). I'm still pretty limited in what I've seen there though to judge beyond those few courses, however.

[Bart Bradley]

Champion Hills?

Champiion Hills might not be one of the best 100 courses in N. Carolina.

 

[Jud_T]

Didn't know Liphook was in New Hampshire...and though I haven't played 'em all it's hard to believe that Talking Stick North isn't in the top 30 in Arizona.  It's also difficult to believe there's 45 courses in California better than Rustic Canyon.

[Mark Saltzman]

Didn't know Liphook was in New Hampshire...and though I haven't played 'em all it's hard to believe that Talking Stick North isn't in the top 30 in Arizona.  It's also difficult to believe there's 45 courses in California better than Rustic Canyon.

Jud,

I thought TS(N) was not much better than good.  It is impressive that C&C were able to design a good, very enjoyable and strategic golf course on very unimpressive land.  I find it similar to CommonGround in that respect -- a good public golf course, fun greens, strategic bunkering -- I think the golf world could use more of courses like these than all the courses built on giant budgets (see the opulent thread).  But, they are not great courses -- and I don't think they were designed to be great.

I have not played most of the courses on the AZ list, so I cannot speak to the comparison between TS(N) and the other courses, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were thirty courses that could be ranked higher.

[Jud_T]

Mark,

What Doak score would you give to WeKoPa Saguaro and TSN?  I'd have them closer than most.

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

What Doak score would you give to WeKoPa Saguaro and TSN?  I'd have them closer than most.

TSN: Doak 5 (fits the definition of 5 better than 4, but it's close): Well above the average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you’re in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don’t spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

WKP(S): Doak 6: 6. A very good course, definitely worth a game if you’re in town, but not necessarily worth a special trip to see. It shouldn’t disappoint you

[Andy Troeger]

Jud,
I'm with Mark, although I think the gap is at least three on the Doak scale. If there was a "most overrated by members of GCA" then TSN would be on the cover. Its a better than average course on an awful site--that doesn't make it any better than about a Doak 4. Its good about three really cool holes, and a far above average number of long par fours. Given what they charge for the going rate, I have a hard time equating it to CommonGround. I think Longbow in Mesa is just as good at half the cost. Saguaro is at least a 7 for me.

Good call on Rustic Canyon though--I never agree when people call it a top 100 level course for the US, but its gotta be in the top 45 in California. Its at least as good as Spanish Bay, I'd say better. In most states it would be much higher.

[Wade Whitehead]

Tobacco Road gets "Gem" status in North Carolina but isn't ranked.

WW

[Greg Holland]

Wow, absolutely meaningless.  Eagle Point 3rd best in N. Carolina?

Bart

Why do you say that -- Golf Digest rankings agree and has EP 3d in state, Golfweek has EP at 7th in the state, and many golfers I know rank EP very highly. 

[JNC Lyon]

The New York State list isn't terrible.  It hits all the highlights for sure (including favorites of mine like Leatherstocking, Oak Hill West, Monroe, CCR, and CCB), although it leaves out a couple decent ones (St. George's, Crag Burn).  But I don't get two things:

1) Why do any of the Turning Stone courses get rated?  Especially Kaluhyat, which is an absolute dump IMO.

2) Why is Oak Hill East still rated so highly?  I've defend the course on this site before, but in the last few years I've become so flustered with it.  The trees continue to grow and nobody does anything.  The fairways are extremely narrow, choking out all strategic decisions that used to be there.  Finally, not only are the Fazio holes still there, but they brought in Fazio to fix them!  Clearly, they admitted that these holes were bad, but they spent a bunch of money so the same architect could make them worse.  The routing is (mostly) solid, the land beautiful, and the bones of Ross still left are magnificent.  But the utter recklessness with which the course has been treated has rendered it unenjoyable.  Count me as one who thinks the West Course (still my favorite in Rochester) is worlds better.  Better than Garden City?  No freakin' way.

[Kalen Braley]

Lets hope the Donald doesn't see this...

He's going to be pissed his Cali course is only ranked 45th in the state.

P.S.  Briand...wWhy doesn't SFGC belong in the top 3 of California?  Everything I've read, seen, and heard of the place...its pretty top notch.

[Mark Steffey]

looking at MA, i am glad to see they recognize Winchester.  i don't believe golf digest even lists this course in their top 20 for the state.

[Pete Blaisdell]

    I can proudly say that I have played every golf course in Nh over a period of 56 years and a few that no longer exist and I'll probably get in trouble for listing my top ten. I don't agree with all the entries on the TOP 100 LIST, OWLS NEST and the SHATTUCK do not belong on this list, in my humble (!!!!) opinion. Anyway here's my Top Ten for my home state and I'll throw in a second ten for good measure (no particular order.

1-Baker Hill    2-Manchester cc  3-Lake Winnipesaukee cc  4- Bretwood North  5-Portsmouth cc  6-Lake Sunapee    7--Golf Club of New England

8--Montcalm  9- Bald Peak  10--Keene cc

11-20    Bretwood South   Nashua cc   Abenaqui cc  Wentworth By the Sea   Atkinson  Hooper GC (9)  Owl's Nest   Hanover cc  Concord cc  Cochecocc

[Pete Blaisdell]

Mark
  I agree 110% on your call on Winchester. Winchester cc is the most underrated golf course in New England. Absolute Ross gem, it's a top 10 in Massachusetts and if some disagee, then they either have not played or they simply don't know what they are talking about. I feel that strongly about Winchester cc.

[Ross Tuddenham]

Are there any courses which are so inaccurately ranked that someone using the site to choose a course to play when visiting a region could make a major mistake and miss out on a much better round of golf? 

I ask because as a resource of what courses are in what areas this is a great site and useful for visitors to a region. I am not sure I care if something at ten should have been at 5 because they may be 100 miles apart so not part of the same decision making process.

[Frank Sullivan]

Are there any courses which are so inaccurately ranked that someone using the site to choose a course to play when visiting a region could make a major mistake and miss out on a much better round of golf? 

I ask because as a resource of what courses are in what areas this is a great site and useful for visitors to a region. I am not sure I care if something at ten should have been at 5 because they may be 100 miles apart so not part of the same decision making process.

In Florida, absolutely.  Black Diamond Ranch is way too high on the list IMO.  Besides the Quarry holes, the course is uninteresting and not memorable.  In that area, I would rather play World Woods (Pine Barrens AND Rolling Oaks), The Dunes of Seville, Brooksville CC, and Southern Hills Plantation.

[Paul Jones]

I stopped when I saw Kiva Dunes didn't make the Top 10 in Alabama.

+1

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