[Mac Plumart]

Last week I had some meetings in Tampa, but had a few hours free one morning.  Given that Concession is one of the clubs in Dismal's sister club network, I hightailed it down to there for a quick round. 

I was a bit pressed for time and when I told the pro that prior to arriving, he simply said "pace of play will not be a problem."  Well, he was right.  I got around in 2 hours 30 minutes.  In fact, that layout reminded me a bit of Chechessee Creek; very flowing, natural progression of holes, no long walks (in fact it would be an easy and pleasant walk, but I rode that day due to my time issues), no housing on the course, very natural.  Long story short, the layout was really something special.

I had heard the course was unbelievably challenging.  Uh, I suppose it could be.  Was is challenging?  Yes.  But if you use your head, it is very, very playable.  Most of the hazard and forced carries are diagonal in nature with MASSIVE bailout areas where even the worse slice will be okay.  But if you take on the long part of the diagonal carries, you better hit it pure and on line...or else.  And that is just it, it could be a great challenge for the scratch man...but it was very playable for a hack like me.

The greens were really cool!!  Undulating and contoured like Dismal River's are.  And they were stimped at a very appropriate level.  I really have no idea of the stimp reading, but I can say that the meld between the contours and speed was perfect.

The maintenance of the course was truly exceptional.  And I don't mean simply that the course was pretty.  It was, in fact, very pleasing to the eye.  BUT, the maintenance meld regarding the architecture was perfect.  Super duper fast and firm fairways, right on par with the Scottish courses I played last year and the courses at Bandon.  My trusty bump and run seven iron was my "go to" shot of the day.  Add these into the contoured greens and it was so much fun to roll shots up there.

In short, this course was fun and worth a play (or three  ) for sure. 

If you are in the area, call them to play...you won't regret it.  If you are a member of Dismal, go there in Dismal's off-season.  It could be your Florida home for the winter.  Now bear in mind, you need to keep your wits about you and not let the visual intimidation factors get you out of your game.  Know your self, know your game, and use your brain and you should have a good time.

[JNC Lyon]

This one is really high on my list for a winter trip.  I don't know if anyone here has played both Concession and May River, but I would love to see a comparison between the two courses as relatively flat, newer Nicklaus designs.

[Mac Plumart]

John...I'd love to hear from someone who's played May River and Concession as well.  I gotta tell you, these "new" Nicklaus'...not too shabby!!

FYI, when you make that trip next winter, I'd like to come.

[Tom_Doak]

Mac:

The Concession is pretty close to our project at Streamsong, which is only about 30 minutes inland from there, and a little bit north.  This time next year, you'll have more to see in the area.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

For those unable to travel to Sarasota, Concession will be seen on the Big Ten Network on March 11 at noon eastern time as it was the site of the Big Ten Match Play event in February.

More collegians are scheduled to play at The Concession in the near future. The Callaway Match Play Championship will be held at the club March 13-16 with 16 Division 1 teams.

[JNC Lyon]

John...I'd love to hear from someone who's played May River and Concession as well.  I gotta tell you, these "new" Nicklaus'...not too shabby!!

FYI, when you make that trip next winter, I'd like to come.

Mac, I know sort of had one in the works for this March (which, it now seems, wouldn't have worked because of the Callaway Match Play), but we're definitely getting a trip done next Winter.  Including Streamsong would be pretty solid too.

As for the new Nicklaus courses, I was really pleasantly surprised over the last year.  The Rivers Dismal and May are both dynamite golf courses--wide playing corridors, strategic, centerline features, and very intricate green complexes.  What's the deal here?  When did Nicklaus go from the builder of aesthetically-pleasing schlock to intellectually-stimulating gems?  I think a lot of it has to do with his design team now (a couple of whom post on this site).  Of course, these guys get little credit in the golf architecture world.  You can't even find their names listed on the Jack Nicklaus Designs website!  Regardless, whatever they're doing at that firm, they need to keep doing it.

[jeffwarne]

John...I'd love to hear from someone who's played May River and Concession as well.  I gotta tell you, these "new" Nicklaus'...not too shabby!!

FYI, when you make that trip next winter, I'd like to come.

Mac, I know sort of had one in the works for this March (which, it now seems, wouldn't have worked because of the Callaway Match Play), but we're definitely getting a trip done next Winter.  Including Streamsong would be pretty solid too.

As for the new Nicklaus courses, I was really pleasantly surprised over the last year.  The Rivers Dismal and May are both dynamite golf courses--wide playing corridors, strategic, centerline features, and very intricate green complexes.  What's the deal here?  When did Nicklaus go from the builder of aesthetically-pleasing schlock to intellectually-stimulating gems?  I think a lot of it has to do with his design team now (a couple of whom post on this site).  Of course, these guys get little credit in the golf architecture world.  You can't even find their names listed on the Jack Nicklaus Designs website!  Regardless, whatever they're doing at that firm, they need to keep doing it.

JNC,
see my quote about the Dyes' and their influence tree in the Mike Donald thread....
Sometimes good fads are good things.
let's hope in the future I'm not using the word fads.

[Mac Plumart]

Mac:

The Concession is pretty close to our project at Streamsong, which is only about 30 minutes inland from there, and a little bit north.  This time next year, you'll have more to see in the area.

AWESOME!!!


As for the new Nicklaus courses, I was really pleasantly surprised over the last year.  The Rivers Dismal and May are both dynamite golf courses--wide playing corridors, strategic, centerline features, and very intricate green complexes.  What's the deal here?  When did Nicklaus go from the builder of aesthetically-pleasing schlock to intellectually-stimulating gems?

John...I'm "all in" that this transformation is due to Sebonack and all the layers of wildness and paradigm shattering that occured there deep inside the recesses of Mr. Nicklaus' mind/ego.

Now it seems Mr. Trump is experiencing his paradigm shift.

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,

I think Concession is probably a fun course for the good golfer who is at least marginally on their game. You must drive the ball well to have any chance--recovery is difficult at best. The forced carries are do-able, but I played with my uncle and father as an early season round a few years ago and all three of found that the course just beats the heck out of poor shots. The slope of 155 seems to confirm that. There are some cool individual holes, but every one of them is difficult. At some point I think that causes the whole to be less than the sum of its parts.

[Mac Plumart]

Andy...that slope is from the tips.  Surely, you all didn't play it from the tips.

I am curious regarding your dad and uncle's handicaps and driver distances and what distance you guys played.  I kind of feel that at some of Nicklaus' courses if you are over an 18 handicap, the courses will kill you.  I wonder if Concession is the same.  But like I mentioned, I saw lot of easier carries and bailouts.

Thanks.

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,
I looked at the tips but the thought of playing them never crossed my mind! I think its the kind of course where most golfers would be better served playing in shorter than their normal yardage--but I also admittedly didn't have a good day. But...once I hit poor drives I was pretty much toast--doing well to make bogeys.

My uncle is a decent player--very strong for a man in his mid-60's but a bit erratic. Like me, he's capable of hitting good shots, but the misses tend to be pretty wide of the mark. My father used to be a 5 hcp but age and back and knee problems have changed his game--he doesn't keep a handicap these days--I think he managed to finish every hole but it was pretty ugly at times.

The issue I have with Nicklaus' recent efforts--the Dove Mountain course on TV this week was softened for what I think is this very reason--the greens are fun and challenging but they create very small targets given the length and difficulty of getting to them. Except for very specific pin placements, the majority of slopes on these greens take balls away from their targets and not toward them. One thing I've noticed about Doak and C & C courses is that their craziest greens are usually on short holes where the player is hitting a wedge or short iron; Nicklaus on some of these recent courses builds them on 480 yard par fours that are still 420 from the "regular tees."  Hand me a wedge and those precision shots are fun--with a 5-iron its really not.

[Andy Troeger]

By the way, the 8th hole at The Concession is a GREAT short par four. Still hard of course, but really cool use of an angled green. There are quite a few other good holes out there too--I don't intend to say the course is poor. Its also not just hard for the sake of hard--its quite strategic.

[Mac Plumart]

Andy, I agree 100% with you on the course. I thought it was challenging AND strategic.  I did not think it was too hard, however. Assuming you played with your head and within yourself.  I thought the course offered many options...and my great caddy made me aware of those options.

You are right on some of the greens. Two of the greens on the par 5's were too small and too contoured for their distance.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mac thanks for starting this on such a positive note. I have considered this one of the top 5 Jack courses period. It is part of what I call the new Jack period. It is a very good course and a good golf experience. It is another case that a flat nothing special piece of land can be home to a very good course.

[Tom_Doak]

Two of the greens on the par 5's were too small and too contoured for their distance.

Huh?  Aren't you hitting a short iron into the green on a par-5?

Or are you saying you think the green on a par-5 should be contoured to receive a long second shot?  If so, maybe Mr. Nicklaus doesn't agree.

[Jeff Tang]

I was fortunate to play The Concession in February for the first time on the Monday prior to the Big Ten match play.  The course was in phenomenal shape, very fast and running and I got the impression that the course was always set up that way, not just for the upcoming tournament.  The greens were very quick and for some of them I think if they got any faster it might become unfair for some of the slopes out there but they were right on the edge.  A lot of fun to try and negotiate.  I’m from the Chicago area and unfortunately it was my second round in a while so my short game and touch wasn’t quite where it needed to be to be able to handle the greens as well as I would have liked.  It’s definitely a course where you have to be on with your short game to have some success there.  I would agree with Andy that a lot of the slopes take the ball away from the hole.  Once it starts going the wrong way it keeps going.

I agree with some of the earlier posts that the course is strategic.  I found this especially true regarding the tee shots on many holes.  On other holes the approaches were very difficult, especially the 8th.  I think it’s a course where local knowledge would really help and knowing where to miss / don’t miss.  However, in some places it probably helped me not knowing where the trouble was because once I got to my ball in a safe place if I knew what was nearby I probably wouldn’t have been able to play the shot as well.  An example is the par 5 13th where you can’t tell from the fairway that there is a huge fall off behind the green until you get up there.  If you know that hitting your approach it would definitely impact your strategy on the approach.

I thought the par 5 greens in particular were very severe.  I don’t really have a problem with that since I didn’t find any of them overly long if you’re playing the correct tees and you were likely coming in with a shorter club.  I do agree that it’s a course that you would likely enjoy more from a shorter set of tees than normal given some of the severity of the greens and surrounds.  The course would be an absolute beast from the tips. I’ll be interested to see how the Big Ten guys play it when it’s televised.

Overall I had a lot of fun playing The Concession and it wasn’t really what I had expected going in as a Nicklaus design.

[Mac Plumart]

Tom...

Maybe?

Would you put your smallest and one of most severe greens at the end of a boomerang style par 5 that is over 600 yards long, with water to go around and a heavily bunkered hole?

It seems you have every potential trick thrown into defend the hole.  Extreme distance.  Heavy bunkering.  Water.  Small green.  Heavily contoured green.  Seems too much to me.

I can accept a small and heavily contoured par 5 green, if you take away something else.  I can take the length water and bunkers if you give me a small but not heavily contoured green.  Or big and heavily contoured green.  

But to wrap it all together, as I said, seems a bit too much.

If you disagree, I will certainly rethink my position.  But if the idea is to be a challenge for a scratch man and playable for the high marker, then this strikes me as too much for one hole.

EDIT...Jeff...agreed 100%.

[Andy Troeger]

Mac,
I agree with you--the 3rd green was especially severe. The 13th is also really perched. I'm not sure whether either would be considered reachable, but I do recall my approach to the 3rd spinning off the green about about 40 yards down a hill. The par fives are also pretty long--so its no guarantee to be in wedge range for a 3rd shot approach.

[jeffwarne]

Tom...

Maybe?

Would you put your smallest and one of most severe greens at the end of a boomerang style par 5 that is over 600 yards long, with water to go around and a heavily bunkered hole?

It seems you have every potential trick thrown into defend the hole.  Extreme distance.  Heavy bunkering.  Water.  Small green.  Heavily contoured green.  Seems too much to me.

I can accept a small and heavily contoured par 5 green, if you take away something else.  I can take the length water and bunkers if you give me a small but not heavily contoured green.  Or big and heavily contoured green.  

But to wrap it all together, as I said, seems a bit too much.

If you disagree, I will certainly rethink my position.  But if the idea is to be a challenge for a scratch man and playable for the high marker, then this strikes me as too much for one hole.

EDIT...Jeff...agreed 100%.

Mac,
If long severe holes with heavily contoured greens and water always commanded larger greens, and short holes commanded small protected contoured greens, golf wold be pretty boring and predictable wouldn't it? (and most courses are)
Some holes can be par 5.3s and some holes can be par 3.7's no?
I hate the concept of fair holes-and love watching The masters where birdies and bogies are equally common

[Mac Plumart]

Valid point, Jeff.

[Cory Lewis]

Would you put your smallest and one of most severe greens at the end of a boomerang style par 5 that is over 600 yards long, with

I remember that hole.  I was in the fairway and had lob wedge in my hand and my caddie told me I couldn't go at the pin because it wasn't possible to hold the green on that line so I had to aim about 20 feet right of the pin.  First time that's ever happened, pretty severe.  Loved the course though!

[Mac Plumart]

Would you put your smallest and one of most severe greens at the end of a boomerang style par 5 that is over 600 yards long, with

I remember that hole.  I was in the fairway and had lob wedge in my hand and my caddie told me I couldn't go at the pin because it wasn't possible to hold the green on that line so I had to aim about 20 feet right of the pin.  First time that's ever happened, pretty severe.  Loved the course though!

Hmmm....

Cory, now that you say that...that is pretty much exactly what my caddy told me.  I went way around the lake and on my third I had 95 yards in.  My caddy told me not to hit the green, but to leave it short.  He said, if you hit the green you will not hold it.  Not hold the green from 95 yards with a gap wedge?  I never questioned him, just did what he told me.  But that is what I mean.  Those greens at the end of a few of those par 5's are pretty damn extreme.  And they are pretty extreme tee to green as well.

But I, like you, really enjoyed the course very much.

[Mac Plumart]

Mac thanks for starting this on such a positive note. I have considered this one of the top 5 Jack courses period. It is part of what I call the new Jack period. It is a very good course and a good golf experience. It is another case that a flat nothing special piece of land can be home to a very good course.

Tiger...

I'd love to hear the details of your Top 5 list regarding Jack's courses.

[PThomas]

Mac thanks for starting this on such a positive note. I have considered this one of the top 5 Jack courses period. It is part of what I call the new Jack period. It is a very good course and a good golf experience. It is another case that a flat nothing special piece of land can be home to a very good course.

Tiger...

I'd love to hear the details of your Top 5 list regarding Jack's courses.

Mac - May River and Mayacama might very well be in that group..

[William_G]

thanks for the thread Mac...more fun golf in FL!

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