On Slow Play and Spitting

[Bob_Huntley]

Reporting from the Match Play event.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/9099331/Keegan-Bradleys-slow-play-and-spitting-is-a-real-turn-off.html

Bob

[Kalen Braley]

All this stuff is arbitrary I guess, I didn't see anything wrong with it.  I just saw a very nervous guy trying to cope with the mass rush of chemically induced stress.

So sure, the Brits wish us Yanks would stop spitting..

...and us Yanks wish the Brits would pay a visit to their Dentist/Orthodontist every now and then.

Who's right and wrong in these things?   

[Jason Topp]

I would love to professional events where the officials applied a 30 second shot clock on every shot.  If you miss the time you just whiffed.  I suspect that players would adapt after a few tournaments and kids would speed up as they mimick their heros.

[John McCarthy]

Since I was a child there has been concern about slow play.  Nothing is ever done about it.  Remember Bernard Langer? 

The shot penalty is the only way. 

[Sam Morrow]

Slow play has always been a problem in the game and probably will always be a problem.

[Anthony Butler]

Reporting from the Match Play event.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/9099331/Keegan-Bradleys-slow-play-and-spitting-is-a-real-turn-off.html

Bob

Keegan justifiably stressed by whether the Red Sox will have decent starting pitching this year...  

All kidding aside, does anyone else think the British are kind of grating themselves in their presumption that they get to decide what constitutes 'manners' in other English speaking societies?

Given the percentage of skin-headed soccer hooligans lurking the streets of their urban areas, one is never sure if an innocent glance held a beat too long might be the precursor for a Liverpool "kiss', a Glascow "smile" or some other form of random violence aimed in your direction. I have never felt so vulnerable walking around the streets of any city, and I have lived in the Lower Haight, East of 16th Street in DC and in New York City when David Dinkins was mayor...

Maybe, as they leave your bloodied corpse for the local constabulary to sort out, they quip; "sorry old chap... dreadful misunderstanding...awfully sorry" ?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Every time this thread comes up I refer to the rise again of one of the greatest killers Tuberculosis.  I live in an inner city and I see young people doing it without thought, just like idiot sportsmen on TV do all the time.

Kalen believes” the problem” is only a European perception.
“5–10% of the U.S. population test positive...
Transmission
When people with active pulmonary TB cough, sneeze, speak, sing, or spit, they expel infectious aerosol droplets 0.5 to 5 µm in diameter. A single sneeze can release up to 40,000 droplets.[30] Each one of these droplets may transmit the disease, since the infectious dose of tuberculosis is very low and inhaling fewer than ten bacteria may cause an infection.[31]”

You can read more here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberculosis


Of course there may be perfectly good reason for unecessarily putting people around you at risk, if so lets hear them.  But don’t pretend spitting isn’t a public health issue.

Please desist from  spitting and put pressure on anyone else you know who does it, to stop.

[Sam Morrow]

Tony do you take craps in public restrooms?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tony do you take craps in public restrooms?

Yes Sam I do.


And ?

[Sam Morrow]

Tony do you take craps in public restrooms?

Yes Sam I do.


And ?

I was just wondering, I'd be more worried about catching something sitting on the can than I would somebody spitting on the ground.

[Kirk Moon]

All this stuff is arbitrary I guess, I didn't see anything wrong with it.  I just saw a very nervous guy trying to cope with the mass rush of chemically induced stress.

So sure, the Brits wish us Yanks would stop spitting..

...and us Yanks wish the Brits would pay a visit to their Dentist/Orthodontist every now and then.

Who's right and wrong in these things?   

The Brits for sure.  

Spitting in public is uncouth and utterly disgusting.  The fact that a few high profile US golf pros do it routinely is just a sign of the times.  

Maybe these guys were polluted by watching too much baseball on TV when they were growing up or something.  Talk about an oral fixation.....      : )

But golf ain't baseball.  I think the PGA ought to slap a fine on a player every time they are seen spitting out on the course.  

[jeffwarne]

He aknowledged he was unaware how much he was doing it and that he would try to curb it.
Couldn't give a better answer than that.

As far as his pace, he is a fidgeter, but once he's over it-he hits it quick so I'd say he's not far off the average time of a PGA TOUR player.
But,like the rest of the tour, plenty of room for improvement.

The rest of the players named are FAR slower than him and it's a never ending routine, far slower than the average TOUR player.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tony do you take craps in public restrooms?

Yes Sam I do.


And ?

I was just wondering, I'd be more worried about catching something sitting on the can than I would somebody spitting on the ground.

Then you have the choice of where to dump.  If I'm next to you when you spit what choice do I have?  There are public health campaigns warning of the danger of spitting, I don't recall one warning of the perils that lurk in small cubicles. There are also campaigns warning of the dangers in crossing the road, but that doesn’t change the fact that Tuberculosis is on the rise again.

Why are you trying to minimize the issue of Tuberculosis, why not challenge the research or tell me why spitting in public is desirable?

 “Don’t be that guy”, indeed.

[Sam Morrow]

Tony do you take craps in public restrooms?

Yes Sam I do.


And ?

I was just wondering, I'd be more worried about catching something sitting on the can than I would somebody spitting on the ground.

Then you have the choice of where to dump.  If I'm next to you when you spit what choice do I have?  There are public health campaigns warning of the danger of spitting, I don't recall one warning of the perils that lurk in small cubicles. There are also campaigns warning of the dangers in crossing the road, but that doesn’t change the fact that Tuberculosis is on the rise again.

Why are you trying to minimize the issue of Tuberculosis, why not challenge the research or tell me why spitting in public is desirable?

 “Don’t be that guy”, indeed.

I'm not minimizing TB at all I was asking you about whether using a public restroom worries you.

[Rick Shefchik]

Watching Bradley at Riviera was excruciating for me. I rooted against him because I couldn't stand to watch him repeatedly spitting and backing off, spitting and backing off. If he's no slower than many others on the PGA Tour, he certainly gives the perception of being slower.

But hey, that's just me...and apparently a few million others. I'm glad Bradley is addressing this. He'll have significant portions of the gallery heckling him -- ala Sergio at Bethpage -- if he doesn't.

[George Pazin]

I'm just amazed the author of the article only yells at the TV during golf. I yell at the TV all the time. Most of my friends and family think I'm a little crazy...

I didn't watch enough of this past Sunday's play to notice: was Bradley's group out of position? Not that is matters to me, I'm just curious to know if everyone around him was equally slow.

And, has anyone else noted the similarity between Keegan Bradley and Kalen Braley's names? I'm starting to wonder if Kalen is an alias for Keegan... after all, did anyone ask for ID at the Grudge Match? Rock Creek CC? Just sayin...

[John_Cullum]

As far as his pace, he is a fidgeter, but once he's over it-he hits it quick so I'd say he's not far off the average time of a PGA TOUR player.

I noticed that too. Once he finally took his stance, the club was moving back. It was almost one motion

[Kalen Braley]

LOL@George.

I sure wish I had Keegans game...but alas not as I've lost to Garland twice in a row now!  

As for spitting and TB.  While its possible, its really overdone in terms of how its normally transmitted.  The vast majority of the time, one is more likely to get it from someone who sneezes, shouts, or coughs, as opposed to spitting.  Even the CDC doesn't list it as a form of transmission.  It is after all an airborne disease and the vast majority of spit usually ends up on the ground, not lingering in the air.  Additionally:

"TB is NOT spread by sharing silverware or cups, sharing cigarettes, or sharing saliva when kissing someone."

http://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/pamphlets/getthefacts_eng.htm


Additionally, while infection rates in other parts of the world can be very high, in the US its very low.

"In the United States, there are approximately 10 cases of TB per 100,000 people"  or .01% of the population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001141/

P.S.  Tony, I have no idea where you got that 5-10% number from.  Even the Wiki link you posted puts it at

"In the United States, the overall tuberculosis case rate was 4 per 100,000 persons in 2007"..that's less than .005% of the population.

[Dan Kelly]

Watching Bradley at Riviera was excruciating for me. I rooted against him because I couldn't stand to watch him repeatedly spitting and backing off, spitting and backing off. If he's no slower than many others on the PGA Tour, he certainly gives the perception of being slower.

But hey, that's just me...and apparently a few million others. I'm glad Bradley is addressing this. He'll have significant portions of the gallery heckling him -- ala Sergio at Bethpage -- if he doesn't.

Hear, hear!

I kept thinking: Where in the HELL is he getting all that spit?

Dustin Johnson's another big spitter. But he's a bit more discreet, at least.

I would probably look away if I were playing with someone who spat that often.

I would *definitely* look away from any playing partner as fidgety as Bradley.

No, take that back: I wouldn't willingly play with anyone that fidgety. My blood pressure couldn't take it.

I GOTTA GO TO CHURCH IN THE MORNING. HIT THE FREAKIN' BALL!

[Dan_Callahan]

Bradley's preshot routine is worse than Furyk's.

I didn't think it was possible that anyone could come up with something more annoying than Furyk's repeated backing off.

But Bradley's fidgeting and spitting and crazy-eyes staring makes him look like he's jonesing for a few lines of coke.

Slow play is an issue that is easily fixed in the same way that the 4-corners stall was fixed in college basketball. The NCAA realized that the 4-corners was a boring-ass thing to watch, they knew they would lose their audience and, therefore, revenue, so they put in a shot clock.

If the powers that be in golf really wanted to fix the slow play problem, they could do so.

In basketball, if you violate the shot clock you lose possession of the ball. Impose an equivalent penalty in golf. Violate the shot clock and you in essence lose your turn, i.e., get penalized a shot. Violate it again, drop another shot. Problem solved.

[RJ_Daley]

I'm going to defend the lads to a certain extent on the spitting, but not the slow play.

Spitting and excessive production of phlegm or mucus is a result of many things, including allergies and impurities in the air, and a hypersensitive airway passage nerve endings.  We all know that strenuous physical activity leading to deep respiration and eventually more mouth breathing inhaling than nasal as we get ampped up is normal.  Also, asthma in many forms from that triggered by the air quality to exercise induced or stress induced causes plenty of coughing and clearing of the throat.  

As one that produced a great deal of phlegm and clear mucous or spit either in exercise or stress, or in certain environments from when some woman is wearing the wrong scent and any of those airfresheners that say 'fresh' or 'mountain', there is something that gets me going and both coughing and wheezing.

So, take Bradley on the course, in the desert or at Riv in polluted L.A. or whatever the environment or stress that causes him to produce a lot of spit-mucus-phlegm, the only question is; what does he do with it?  I'm willing to give anyone a 500-1 odds he doesn't have TB!    

So I say, and as I do, spit the crap out on the grass.  (certainly not near where you are respitorily near someone else breathing) but on the ground, which is a field of sporting play covered by turf that has no health problem with it.  Maybe even some beneficial microbial activity is induced... I'll defer to a guy like Mahaffey on that!     I for one, given how much I produce, am not about to swallow that much sputum, mucus, etc.  Any M.D.s that wish to weigh in on swallow or spit it out, would be much appreciated.... along with a private e-mail on any really great jokes that come to mind....  

But, with Bradley saying he will try to modify his spitting, I'll give him credit that he is "trying" to not be rude.  I didn't note him doing so much spitting at the PGA win, so I'm guessing it is environmental irritant.

[George Pazin]

I think he was spittin' tobacco juice or whatever it's called.

Brandel Chamblee actually had a funny line about the spitting: he said he thought Bradley was just showin' off, as he never could work up a spit in that situation.

Even a blind squirrel...

[Tim Gavrich]

That's all very rich, given the tendency of the European side to "slow-play" the Americans in the Ryder Cup.

Keegan Bradley is, by all accounts, as nice as can be.  And to boot, he recognizes the need to minimize what amounts to a nervous tic and will do so.  I cannot imagine how I would feel and what kind of fidgeting I'd be doing if I were playing with that kind of money on the line.

And so many golfers spit on a regular basis that to be up in arms about this is, in my opinion, a little drastic.  He didn't spit on the putting green, so he gets a pass from me.

[Carl Nichols]

Tiger's spitting, where he generates a huge loogey and then spits it quite obtrusively, is the worst IMHO. 

[Tim Martin]

The fidgeting and resulting slow play is pitiful. I guess if he is trying to control the spitting then you have to give him credit. That said it is still over the top.