[Patrick_Mucci]

Is one reason that they prevent extrication if you're unlucky enough to have you ball come to rest close to the vertical wall ?
The element of "fairness" ?

One might think, that in clay based soils, that these would be a natural.

Especially when the tee is elevated enough to give a glimpse of their ferocious nature.

[Carl Rogers]

I doubt they can be maintained with a Sandpro.

They seem a little bit forced onto that landscape.

[Tom_Doak]

Has anyone ever seen sod wall bunkers attempted in clay soils?

I am under the impression that it wouldn't work at all, because clay would contaminate the bunker through the sod wall.  But I'm not sure of that; I've just never seen it.

[Carl Rogers]

Tom & Pat,

Wouldn't it have to do with percentage of sand in the soil?  My, anecdotal experience in the field of soils, is that few soils are pure sand, pure clay, pure silt etc, but always some multi-part mixture.  I bet some one some where has done some field experimentation on this subject.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Carl,

Greg Norman/Pete Dye tried it at The Medalist with what I thought was decent success.

That's mostly a sugar sand environment.

I think the problem was ongoing maintainance and replacement of the sod walls, especially with the seasonal issues and the abundant rain south Florida gets in the summer.

The construction or structure of a steep bunker wall doesn't have to be layered brick sod.

I've seen fabric used as a surface material on steep faced bunkers.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Pat,

Is the pic from Gullane 1??

[Ian Andrew]

Has anyone ever seen sod wall bunkers attempted in clay soils?

We have a few built into clay (not by me).

We see major issues with moles and voles.
When the snow covers the face of the sod wall, they tunnel there way to it and dine on the turf all winter till nothing is left.

The south facing ones die very quickly without dedicated irrigation

[Ian Andrew]

Pat,

Is the pic from Gullane 1??

Royal Porthcawl

[Ed Brzezowski]

Pat,

Is the pic from Gullane 1??

Royal Porthcawl

just moved up the  got tp play list

[Wade Whitehead]

I think Rasberry Falls in northern Virginia has stacked sod bunkers.  I played there just once, around 2002.  After going for a par five in two (with a two iron) I found my ball plugged between sod layers in a bunker face about shoulder high.

Does anyone know if these bunkers have survived?

WW

[Bryan Izatt]

I'd think that they would fill up like a bathtub in a rain event, if they were built on clay soil.  Maintaining drainage would likely be an issue.

[Willie_Dow]

Revetted bunkers were put in by ? in Narragansset, RI (sp), and they were a great attempt at an introduction of what you are looking for.

It was written up a couple of years ago on GCA.

Come on - who was the great one who gave us "Golf in Britain" a wonderful tour of courses ??

[BCrosby]

They tried to built revetted bunkers at Greg Norman's Sugar Loaf course. They had to be rebuild every year or so. I think they have gone to a different style. They are a disaster for a number of reasons in clay soils in the SE.

Bob

[Ronald Montesano]

Paul Albanese installed some during a redo on the flat front nine at Holiday Valley (Ellicottville, NY).

I'll go through my pics and see what I have.

[Bill_McBride]

Cost has to be a factor.   I think Muirfield regularly rebuilds their stacked sod bunkers.   

What I really like at Porthcawl is those bunkers are not islands in the rough!

[archie_struthers]

 

Just a novice builder here, but we've used revetment techniques to stabilize some bunkers at both Greate Bay and Twisted Dune. If memory serves , I remember talking and watching Dick Bator use  revetting techniques to shore up  famous Pine Valley bunkers at both #2 and #10.  Of course the DA needed sleepers built into the wall .

Ian's story about moles eating the grass is fascinating ! For those of you here who wonder what the heck we are talking about the revetment process involves stacking of the sod , with grass to grass and dirt to dirt . It seems Ian's moles ate the grass middle out of the Oreo, resulting in collapse of the wall. Sort of like a compression fracture to the vertabrae caused by blind rats , wow.

They look good and have stabilized some runoff issues for us, I would think they are a useful tool properly used. Lots of ways to build them , and they don't have to be seen to be appreciated.

[Tom_Doak]

Cost has to be a factor.   I think Muirfield regularly rebuilds their stacked sod bunkers.   

What I really like at Porthcawl is those bunkers are not islands in the rough!

Bill:

Everyone who has revetted bunkers has to rebuild them periodically.  Most of the links courses in the UK do it on a 3- to 5-year rotation, rebuilding the bunkers on a few holes each winter, which gives the crew something to do when they stop mowing.  However, as you say, it's labor-intensive and expensive when compared to laying off the crew.

In different climates, the bunkers deteriorate more rapidly.  I think the clay would not help things, either, as Ian's report confirms.

[Matthew Sander]

It looks like they're using quite a few revetted bunkers in the renovations at Mistwood in Romeoville, IL. Here is a link to some construction pics...

http://www.mistwoodgolf.net/courserenovationpics

[David_Tepper]

"Everyone who has revetted bunkers has to rebuild them periodically."

Tom D. & Bill M. -

I have noticed that grounds crews in Scotland also have to periodically remove/eliminate the grass that grows thru the sod wall faces of revetted bunkers. Sometimes the grass is burnt off with a blow-torch.

DT 

[Bryan Izatt]

One that comes to mind is the Gailes course at Lakewood Shores Resort in northern Michigan.  There's a nice video on their site that shows them.

[Mike_Clayton]

Anyone who has played Porthcawl will know that if you hit into a bunker you are hoping 1/ you can stand in the bunker, 2/ you have a swing and  3/ you can play in the direction of the hole.
Many times you don't get all three and they are to be avoided at all costs.
And if you do get all three you must resist the temptation to try for too much. The most innocent looking ones are sometimes the most dangerous.
My guess is that if anyone built bunkers like than in this age they would be accused of many things.

[Sean_A]

The bunkers themselves don't look very well done on this as no attempt to build a nose was made, but their placement is what matters most.  On that score they work very well for both this tee and the medal tee well left near the water. 

It is my understanding that pots are fairly low maintenance through the season, but depending on how well they are constructed need to be refaced every 2-7 years.  I like the eroded pot look, but I don't how this effects erosion or what the consequences are of letting it carry on too far.  Below is an example of a great looking pot that hasn't yet been repaired.  Notice how much deeper the pot can be when built in a more "natural" position than those seen on Porthcawl's 1st. 


It is interesting to note there has been very little talk of Aberdovey's experiment with a more natural style of bunkering.  They rebuilt the bunkers a few years ago replacing their rather pathetic pots with "dinosaur footprints".  I think for Aberdovey this bunkers look far superior to their old pots.
 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

The construction or structure of a steep bunker wall doesn't have to be layered brick sod.

I've seen fabric used as a surface material on steep faced bunkers.

Patrick - that's a good observation. I saw a good feature recently (maybe it was Adam's GCA?) that showed a new synthetic material to replace sod on revetted bunker walls. It looked good I have to say. Some clubs (including Princes if I remember correctly Sean) stated that they were going down that route.

Cost has to be a factor.   I think Muirfield regularly rebuilds their stacked sod bunkers.   

Day to day maintenance of them can be less Bill... But the cost is rightly as you state in the rebuilding of them every few years. The high end clubs will rotate this by building perhaps a quarter of their bunkers every year on a 4 year cycle. The courses that are happier with a little erosion and rustic looking bunkers can go for nearer 10 years, especially on the north facing ones...

I have noticed that grounds crews in Scotland also have to periodically remove/eliminate the grass that grows thru the sod wall faces of revetted bunkers. Sometimes the grass is burnt off with a blow-torch.

David,

Some courses decide to leave the grass on the faces although this can cause some problems such as the grass grabbing sand splash and creating bellies on the faces. Those that choose to burn them off do so very regularly. The grass grows through at the same rate as elsewhere so it's part of the regular maintenance regime

[Adam Lawrence]

I think this is the product you mean Ally. I haven't seen it in use myself, but their testimonials are impressive.

http://www.envirosports.co.uk/

[Andy Shulman]

I think Rasberry Falls in northern Virginia has stacked sod bunkers.  I played there just once, around 2002.  After going for a par five in two (with a two iron) I found my ball plugged between sod layers in a bunker face about shoulder high.

Does anyone know if these bunkers have survived?

The handful of stacked sod bunkers at Raspberry Falls in Leesburg, VA have indeed survived, Wade.  The rules on balls embedded in the faces of these bunkers was discussed at http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=6657.0.

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