[Jason Walker]

Looking at the photos of Apache Stronghold got me to thinking (and apologies if this topic has been covered--I'm sure it has), but at what point does degradation in maintenance take away from golfing enjoyment?  I look at those pictures and see nothing but desert, much less a golf course designed by one of the top modern golf course architects.  I could not imagine myself spending valuable recreation time there.

 I guess you could turn this question into the traditional "what matters more, design or maintenance?", but I'm more interested in quantifying at which point quality design is impacted enough to negatively affect the playing experience.

[Sam Morrow]

I looked at those pictures Jason, I don't care how good a course is, if Pine Valley was in that condition I wouldn't play it.

[Jon Wiggett]

It depends on how poor the condition is I suppose. I always enjoyed playing Carnoustie in the mid 80s when it was in poor nick because it was still a great course and you could appreciate it. So their GCA was a key thing. I would say it was better value for money then than it is these days even though the condition is much, much better.

Jon

[Tony Ristola]

When it detracts from the enjoyment. If the greens were in good shape on a course of quality, the remainder I could deal with. That's me though. I think the mass market sees things in other terms. The question is, would I come back or make it a regular stop? That I doubt.

What is sad is the one greensite photo shows the bunker(s) seem to have lost 100% of their once artistic character, but even this I could get over... though be disappointed.

I hope they find a solution at AS.

[Joe Bausch]

I'm probably a bit more tolerant of poor conditioning than most, but I draw the line, fairly or unfairly, at the greens.  I can live with dirt tees, thin fairways with no rough, poorly maintained bunkers, but if the greens are lousy, that will likely be my last visit to the course.

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