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BHoover

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Acacia CC - Cleveland
« on: February 17, 2012, 12:25:50 PM »
This may not be news to some on the site, but it looks as though Acacia CC in Beachwood outside Cleveland may be sold to retail developers.  I've never played Acacia, but it's sad to see a Ross design bulldozed under for the sake of retail development.  If the cluib cannot survive, I would rather see the members sell to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources or the Cleveland Metroparks.  But that does not appear to be an option.

Can anyone who has played Acacia provide some thoughts on the course?

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/retail_developer_visconsi_offe.html

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2012, 02:56:47 PM »

I understand it is pretty close to a done deal.  Even if it does not go through, the club is committed to sell so it is only a matter of time.

Chance of the club being sold to anyone other than developers is zero.  The club is in the middle of the biggest retail development in Cleveland and is right across the street from the biggest, high-end mall in northeast Ohio.

Re: Acacia, it is a fine course and I have enjoyed playing it.  There are several holes that look like natural Ross holes that are a lot of fun (the approach to #12 is straight up a hill where the false front will roll the ball 50 yards down the hill).  However. there are others that look like a greens committee had gotten to them over the years - devoid of real contours.  Plus, with the club knowing that it was going to sell, it has not put money into the course in years.   

In its current design, it would not qualify as a Ross treasure and there are certainly better Ross designs in northeast Ohio at Brookside, Congress Lake and Shaker Heights.  Honestly, it going under is probably a good thing as it will strengthen nearby clubs like Canterbury and Shaker Heights, both of which are great courses.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 04:06:48 PM »
I'm pretty sure this issue has been discussed / proposed before, but no one has been able to "pull the trigger".

I have yet to play the course, but obviously need to get out there ASAP this season to play the course before it is considered NLE.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 04:37:57 PM »

Evan - there is a chance that they play this season out - even with the current offer.  From what I hear, this is the offer that is going to be accepted.  While an Acacia sale has been discussed in the past, this is the one that gets done.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 11:01:03 PM »

Re: Acacia, it is a fine course and I have enjoyed playing it.  There are several holes that look like natural Ross holes that are a lot of fun (the approach to #12 is straight up a hill where the false front will roll the ball 50 yards down the hill).  However. there are others that look like a greens committee had gotten to them over the years - devoid of real contours.  Plus, with the club knowing that it was going to sell, it has not put money into the course in years.   

I agree...the course would need some serious restoration to get back to a more "Ross" vibe.  I've played several events here and it is a very fun golf course.

In its current design, it would not qualify as a Ross treasure and there are certainly better Ross designs in northeast Ohio at Brookside, Congress Lake and Shaker Heights.  Honestly, it going under is probably a good thing as it will strengthen nearby clubs like Canterbury and Shaker Heights, both of which are great courses.

I would rather the club come back and revitalize than sell and shut its doors as that would be a better sign of positive direction in the Northeast Ohio Economy.  The other courses in the area will more than likely benefit in the long run much like Mayfield/Sand Ridge did with the closing of Oakwood.
 
Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 12:50:57 PM »
I had the privilege of working at Acacia on the golf professional staff from 2003 to 2007. It has been very disheartening for me personally to witness the decline of the club over the years. The east suburbs of Cleveland are overpopulated with great golf courses with the oldest ones having been built on the best pieces of land in the area. It is inevitable that more courses in this area will close and create more of a balance between the supply and demand between the courses and golfers.

Acacia is a great golf course. It is the type of course that can provide a great challenge for the expert golfer. We hosted the Ohio Open along with Little Mountain G.C. (a very nice modern Hurdzan design up in near Mentor) back in 2006 and the stroke average was exactly the same during the first two days on both golf courses. However, more importantly, Acacia is a very user friendly course where the average to below average golfer can play on daily basis and ENJOY the game. We need more courses like this, not less.

As for the golf course, it has evolved like many in the area. Too many trees have been planted over the years, bunkers have been removed or “saddled in” to accommodate the trees and all of the greens have shrunk in considerably from the edges of the fill pads.

Check out the aerial of the golf course below from 1954.  :P



Many of the bunkers that were on the golf course in the early days are still there but are now grassed-in or have trees growing in them. IMO, removing many of the trees that have been planted and restoring the bunkers along with some new tees (both forward and back tees) could improve Acacia very much.

As for greens, they contain some of the most interesting internal contours of any golf course in the area. It is puzzling to me that someone could observe them as being “devoid of real contours”. A green expansion project could greatly improve them and regain many great hole locations along the edges that have been lost over the years. I don’t think many of the greens have been modified by the club except for holes #11 & #13 where the front edges have been raised to keep balls from rolling off the front of the greens. Also, I believe the green on the second hole was shrunk considerably on the left side when Tillinghast stopped by and made the recommendation in 1936 during his PGA Course Service Tour. Restoring the left side of the second green would be an improvement as well.  

During the time I worked there, I would put the condition of the golf course up against any in the area when considering the budget that head golf course superintendent Craig Kachline (a former assistant of Terry Bonar at Canterbury) had to work with. The greens, from a condition standpoint, were easily comparable to the best in town on a regular basis.

Lastly, to comment that they haven’t put money in to the golf course in the past few years because they were planning to sell the property, IMO, is not very accurate. Back in 2003 they had over 300 members and I’m pretty sure they have been under 100 members for the past few years. Could it be that they haven’t put money in to the golf course simply because they don’t have money to do so? Also, they built a brand new clubhouse back in 2005. If they had been planning to sell the property, then why did they build a new clubhouse instead of fixing up the old one for just a few more years?

Sadly, I think the fate of Acacia is not good even though I am hoping for the best. Don’t miss out on an opportunity to play there if the members vote to sell and it remains open for this season, especially if you haven’t seen it yet.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 01:07:19 PM by Dean DiBerardino »

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2012, 07:49:09 PM »
The Acacia membership is meeting tonight to vote on the Visconsi offer.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2012, 08:00:52 PM »
Expect approval of offer and closing after this golf season.  Another Ross NLE.
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 10:44:12 AM »
Not a done deal yet. Looks like yet another opportunity for the local consigliere to benefit from Acacia whether it sells or not.....

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/03/acacia_country_club_might_sell.html

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 06:35:48 PM »
Wow!

I've just GOT to get out there this season and play the place before it goes bye-bye...

What a shame...
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2012, 09:58:36 AM »
It looks like the most recent offer from Visconsi has been "officially" rejected by the Acacia membership......

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/06/acacia_country_club_shareholde_2.html

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2012, 10:42:01 AM »
It was rejected but many members are leaving anyway, so it will eventually lead to the end of the club.  

Other private clubs (including some nationally known ones) are already offering Acacia members a free transfer of membership with no initiation.

"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2012, 11:08:24 AM »
It was rejected but many members are leaving anyway, so it will eventually lead to the end of the club.  

Other private clubs (including some nationally known ones) are already offering Acacia members a free transfer of membership with no initiation.



It seems like you have it all figured out. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2012, 11:21:11 AM »
Dean - Quite the opposite.  I was told that passage of the offer was a done deal.  Little do I know.

I have several friends that are members.  I have been told that they are having difficulty attracting new members due to the uncertainty at the club.  Also, I have been told that they are now getting hit up by the other private clubs, offering no initiation, just based on their ability to be good dues paying members.   

Cleveland has too many private clubs right now based on the population and wealth in the community.  A couple of them have to close in order to get the others healthy.  With Acacia's uncertainty and the high real estate value, I just think it is a matter of time.

I easily could be wrong - won't be the first time..
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2012, 11:47:07 AM »
Michael,

What other clubs in Cleveland/NE Ohio are facing difficulty?  I'm not trying to start a rumor mill, but I'm curious as to which clubs might be facing difficulty.  I remember that Mayfield and Sand Ridge merged a few years ago as a result of economics.  Are any other clubs considering that option?

In Columbus, the downtown Athletic Club (ACC) entered into a joint venture a year ago with Columbus Country Club.  The intent was to increase membership (particularly younger families) at each club.  The intent was to offer a "city" club that focuses on athletics (basketball, squash, gym, pool, etc.) and a "country" club that focuses on golf, tennis and pool.  I think the idea is loosely modeled on the Olympic Club (not sure whether other cities have something similar but I wouldn't be surprised).  The driving force was declining membership, particularly at CCC.  I can't speak to specifics, but I think the result has been generally positive for each club after more than a year of partnership.  I'm not sure whether the arrangement ever will result in a formal merger of the clubs, but it seems to be a possibility. 

Matt Elliott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2012, 10:40:34 PM »
Haven't they been talking about selling to developers for at least 10 years or so?  I remember discussing the possibility with an Acacia member sometime around 2002-2003 and he was of that opinion that it was just a matter of time before at least part of the property was sold off.

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2012, 10:46:29 PM »
I understand clubs are having a tough time...but on the flip side, who is looking to build new retail environments in the rust belt?

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 08:44:32 AM »

Brian:  I don't want to start rumors as to which clubs those are.  Oakwood closed last year and Acacia is discussed in the newspapers.  My guess is that there will be a couple of other clubs in the Cleveland area that will not exist several years from now.  None of the stalwarts, but good clubs nonetheless.

Matt:  They have been talking to developers forever.  I understand they just can't get the adequate votes to sell, but as the membership gets older, the possibility of sale is greater.

JLahrman:  Beachwood is the one healthy retail area in Cleveland.  If you saw where this club sits, you would wonder how it lasted this long. 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2012, 09:18:44 AM »
The fact that Acacia is literally across the street from the Beachwood shopping center makes it really attractive for development.  I get that, and I'm sure it makes economic sense to sell the property for development, especially for a club that is struggling for members.  But even if the club can't make it work as a private or public golf facility, it really would be a shame to see a sizeable piece of "natural" land bulldozed under to make way for apartments, condos, strip malls, etc.  It's too bad that the property couldn't be used as a green space or park or something other than shopping and parking lots.  I'm by no means opposed to economic development (God knows that NE Ohio can use it), but it's a shame to see green space gobbled up by shopping area sprawl.

That said, I'm surprised it hasn't sold already.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2012, 09:09:01 PM »
A recent update on the future of Acacia. The board is recommending the sale of the club to a conservation group, but the City of Beachwood is not happy.  The mayor of Beachwood opposes preserving the property as green space, no doubt influenced by the tax revenue that development would bring rather than a green space (annual property tax revenues are estimated to be $500K to $750K From development of the property).

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/conservation_group_offers_1475.html#incart_river_default
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 09:13:27 PM by Brian Hoover »

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 09:40:34 AM »

Brian:

Saw that this morning.  Selling as green space would be great.  Not sure what the Mayor can do about it so hopefully it goes through.  Beachwood needs a little beautification as it currently is a concrete village.  The few members that I know are joining other clubs in the off season so I think the writing is on the wall, one way or another. 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 12:39:43 PM »
I used to live very close to there for a bit in grad school, but I've never played it -- Manakiki & Sleepy Hollow fit my grad school budget.

I'm just wondering who 'owns' the course if it gets sold. Is it member owned?  Do they split the cash?

And if so, I'm curious why membership has gone down, I'd expect people to stick around just to sell and make some money.

We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 11:53:31 PM »
PS: It just occurred to me that i wasn't factoring in debt the club probably has.  So perhaps there won't be much/anything left to divide up.
We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Dean DiBerardino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2012, 03:16:41 PM »
The Acacia membership has voted to sell the property to the conservation group. Looks like they are going to do some due diligence about the possibility of keeping it open as a golf course (I think that's what I read in the article).

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/09/acacia_country_club_approves_s.html

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Acacia CC - Cleveland
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2012, 03:32:15 PM »
Did Acacia close down at some point in the past?  The Ross Society already has it listed as NLE, but I doubt that was due to recent events.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross