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Jim Colton

Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 10:33:25 AM »
Not the best picture in the world, but here's #5 at Somerset. It doesn't do the size of those two ridges justice. Depending on the angle, I believe you can hit your ball up the back ridge to get to the pin you see in the picture.

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Howard Riefs

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2012, 11:10:40 AM »
For another Ross...


French Lick Resort – Dye course
#8: Largest green on the course at 7,502 square feet; greatest slope at six feet of drop, according to Ran's course profile.








                                                                      
Photos from Ran’s course profile
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

PCCraig

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2012, 11:11:56 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 17, 2012, 08:03:49 AM
Can't believe I didn't get any at White Bear Yacht Club [the 11th and 12th are favorites, but not necessarily the wildest].

There are few sets of classic greens that I've seen that are much wilder than at WBYC. Some crazy contours the in the greens (and fairways)!
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H.P.S.

PCCraig

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2012, 11:14:17 AM »
Howard,

The 8th green at FL - Ross has a ton of movement from back to front, but I thought the wildest green was the 17th. The spine/slope in the middle of the green is HUGE and hard to scale in photos. Lots of fun, wild, greens in French Lick.
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H.P.S.

Howard Riefs

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2012, 11:21:43 AM »
Quote from: PCraig on February 17, 2012, 11:14:17 AM
Howard,

The 8th green at FL - Ross has a ton of movement from back to front, but I thought the wildest green was the 17th. The spine/slope in the middle of the green is HUGE and hard to scale in photos. Lots of fun, wild, greens in French Lick.

Thanks, Pat. Good call...


French Lick Resort – Dye course
#17: Second largest green on the course at 7,000. Photos and copy courtesy of Ran’s profile.

 






One gains an appreciation of the difference in height of the right half of the green versus the left half by looking at Director of Golf Dave Harner’s feet relative to the day’s lower left hole location.


 
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Carson Pilcher

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2012, 11:29:00 AM »
First to pop into my mind are:

#5 Augusta
#6 Augusta

#16 Old Course
#12 Old Course

...I have not played in a hile, but I would imagine that Pasatiempo would have a few as well.
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Kirk Moon

Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2012, 11:43:18 AM »
#16 at Pasatiempo probably deserves consideration  


« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 09:11:55 AM by Kirk Moon »
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Ben Kodadek

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2012, 01:35:15 PM »
#11 at Mountain Lake
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Frank Pont

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2012, 01:44:59 PM »
Some of the greens on the Edden Course!
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Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2012, 01:49:23 PM »
2, 9, 10, 13, 14, 18 at Schuylkill CC

Mark
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Bruce Katona

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2012, 01:59:33 PM »
Kelly Moran built a very unique green on #13 at Hawke Point in Washington, NJ.  Very narrow, severly two-tiered green.  Very unique and interesting.
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Ben Sims

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2012, 02:07:53 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 17, 2012, 08:03:49 AM
Those just barely scratch the surface.  Can't believe I didn't get any MacKenzie greens in there ... 8 and 16 at Pasatiempo have to be up there with any.  Can't believe I didn't get any at White Bear Yacht Club [the 11th and 12th are favorites, but not necessarily the wildest].  Or how about the 2nd green at Machrihanish?  The 5th at Lancaster?  The 5th at Merion?  The 16th at Pine Valley?  Or Sea Hedrig?  Or anything at Crystal Downs?  Or the 4th at Myopia -- God, I hope they haven't changed it.

Dang!  Now we know how to get Tom giddy. 

So many great ones.  Some not individually ID'd yet.  #11 at Plainfield, #5 at Palmetto, #13 at Crystal, #2 at Oakmont, #6 at Riviera. 
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Mac Plumart

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2012, 02:18:31 PM »
Shoot, how 'bout 1 at Aiken?

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JLahrman

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2012, 02:43:16 PM »
Quote from: Howard Riefs on February 17, 2012, 11:10:40 AM
For another Ross...

French Lick Resort – Dye course
#8: Largest green on the course at 7,502 square feet; greatest slope at six feet of drop, according to Ran's course profile.

#8 and #17 are two most notorious greens at French Lick, but they're hardly the only greens to feature a great deal of undulation. If you want to consider all 18 greens of a course instead of cherry-picking a few greens, I would think that French Lick Ross would be a serious contender for the wildest greens of the classic era. Or any era, for that matter.

They keep the greens at a moderate speed...I don't think there is any way that several of them would be playable if they were to play fast by modern standards.

They don't have all the tiny little breaks that a course like Pasatiempo has. But if you want big, bold, undulations, French Lick has got to be on your playlist.

When I played #17, the hole was back left. I had hit a good approach to about 20 feet below the hole, on the correct tier.  Just for fun, I dropped a ball on the front right of the green, at least 100 feet from the hole. I casually whacked it up the right side of the green and watched the ball catch the tier, take a 90 degree turn to the left, and trickle into the hole.

I then proceeded to three-putt my relatively easy, uphill 20-footer. Freaking green.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 02:51:16 PM by JLahrman »
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Tim Martin

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2012, 02:59:48 PM »
Quote from: Tim Gavrich on February 17, 2012, 09:18:46 AM
I would actually call the 8th green at Yale more eccentric than the 9th.  Perhaps the 10th is even more eccentric still.  No matter what, though, all three are wonderful greens.

Tim-You can add 1 and 12 for sure and a case can be made for some others as well.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2012, 04:16:21 PM »
I must pile on here and say that the 8 thru 10 stretch at Yale... whoa, what a string of wild greens!

#8 (par 4)



#8



#9 (par 3)



#9



#10 (par 4)



#10



#10



« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 04:32:44 PM by Joe Bausch »
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Tom_Doak

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2012, 04:39:17 PM »
Quote from: Carson Pilcher on February 17, 2012, 11:29:00 AM
First to pop into my mind are:

#5 Augusta
#6 Augusta

#16 Old Course
#12 Old Course

Actually, every one of the greens at Augusta National has been rebuilt to USGA specs since 1981.  I saw them working on #6 that summer.  I know they tweaked the contour on #5 a bit when they did it, but I don't know for sure about #6.

Somehow, though, the greens on The Old Course have managed to stay untouched and not require rebuilding to USGA specs.  Must be divine intervention!
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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2012, 04:44:35 PM »

Tom

TOC  - correctly built upon land fit for purpose  Nothing divine its just the way we build them
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Howard Riefs

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2012, 04:56:08 PM »
Quote from: Joe Bausch on February 17, 2012, 04:16:21 PM
I must pile on here and say that the 8 thru 10 stretch at Yale... whoa, what a string of wild greens!



Wow. I knew I should have attended Yale...

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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Bruce Katona

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2012, 05:03:58 PM »
I hit those wooden stairs on #10 at Yale with a "slightly" thinned iron.....not forgiving nor did the result leave me with an easy pitch ontot he green..........
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Mike_Clayton

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2012, 05:19:11 PM »
Surprisingly for a country so influenced by Alister MacKenzie only his Australian partner Alex Russell's 11th green at Yarra Yarra qualifies as wild.
Some at Royal Melbourne are severe because of the tilts and the speed but they are hardly 'wild'
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Tom_Doak

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2012, 05:58:36 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Clayton on February 17, 2012, 05:19:11 PM
Surprisingly for a country so influenced by Alister MacKenzie only his Australian partner Alex Russell's 11th green at Yarra Yarra qualifies as wild.
Some at Royal Melbourne are severe because of the tilts and the speed but they are hardly 'wild'

Mike:

That's because he had Alex Russell watching over everything in Melbourne and not Perry Maxwell, and because MacKenzie didn't stay himself!  But, it's still surprising.

Maybe the 8th at Yarra Yarra would also have qualified before they softened it?  And I was thinking about mentioning the 6th at Royal Melbourne (West) ... that one is pretty severe, if not so wild.
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Mike_Clayton

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2012, 06:35:37 PM »
Tom,

I refrained from mentioning the 8th at Yarra because there is nothing nice to say about the decision to change it. Russell apparently did not build enough pin placements even though they managed perfectly well for 70 years. Same with the great old 4th green - a hole now sadly gone.

I think 6 at Royal Melbourne is just really severe - but certainly not wild.

Perhaps not surprisingly the one green at Kingston Heath that is close is 15 - the one he did with Morcom when he was in Melbourne.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 06:42:26 PM by Mike_Clayton »
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Ed Oden

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2012, 07:36:33 PM »
OK, I am an unabashed lover of golden age courses.  As a general rule, I prefer them to modern designs.  However, when I look at these pictures of "the wildest classic era greens still in existence", I honestly don't see that they are really any wilder than what is being produced by some of today's architects.  In fact, I'm not sure that the craziest stuff I have seen isn't some of the modern stuff.  Is the notion that greens were more dramatic in days gone by mostly a romantic fantasy?  If so, what does that say about our fears that escalating green speeds will inevitably lead to the extinction of severely contoured putting surfaces?
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Doug Wright

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Re: The wildest classic era greens still in existence?
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2012, 07:57:16 PM »
Augusta National #14
Dooks #13 (circa 1994--don't know if it's been changed, hope not)
Denver CC #4--home made by a member 70 years ago and totally out of character with the rest of the course's greens but happily no one would dare mess with it
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