The biggest clunker on the greatest course.

« **on:** February 13, 2012, 11:39:53 AM »

Using only the top ten courses as identified by Golf Digest in the United States, which single hole would you identify as the BCGC? For me, based on my small sample, it is the ninth at Sand Hills. The hole could use a phone box on the tee to call in your lunch order so it is perfectly clear that its only purpose is getting you back to Ben's Porch. In all fairness, if not for the greatness of the seventh and eighth holes the ninth may fit better somewhere else in the round. As with most BCGC's it is a victim of its surroundings.

The top ten:

1.   AUGUSTA NATIONAL G.C.

2.   PINE VALLEY G.C.

3. SHINNECOCK HILLS G.C.

4.   OAKMONT C.C.

5.   CYPRESS POINT CLUB

6. PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS

7.   MERION G.C. (East)

8.   WINGED FOOT G.C. (West)

9.   SAND HILLS G.C.

10.   NATIONAL G. LINKS OF AMERICA

« **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:44:40 AM »

The 18th at Cypress Point is a good and obvious start.

« **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:47:32 AM »

Quote from: PCraig on February 13, 2012, 11:44:40 AM

The 18th at Cypress Point is a good and obvious start.

Pat,

I have never played either course. Is the 18th at Cypress a worse hole than any of the 18 at Pebble?

« **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:50:47 AM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on February 13, 2012, 11:47:32 AM

Quote from: PCraig on February 13, 2012, 11:44:40 AM
The 18th at Cypress Point is a good and obvious start.

Pat,

I have never played either course. Is the 18th at Cypress a worse hole than any of the 18 at Pebble?

I didn't know we were comparing "clunkers" to the holes at Pebble Beach. I've never played Pebble Beach so I wouldn't be able to fully compare.

« **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:53:22 AM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on February 13, 2012, 11:47:32 AM

Quote from: PCraig on February 13, 2012, 11:44:40 AM
The 18th at Cypress Point is a good and obvious start.

Pat,

I have never played either course. Is the 18th at Cypress a worse hole than any of the 18 at Pebble?

18 at Augusta is a bit clunkerish.....

« **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:54:37 AM »

number 3 at Pebble...slightly better now, but still not very good.
I am one who likes 18 at Cypress...I think that green complex is really good, penal to the left side and long...I think it gets a bad rap actually.

« **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2012, 11:59:43 AM »

Of the courses I've played:

Shinnecock: 6
Oakmont: n/a but 10 if I really had to pick one
Pebble: 16
Merion: n/a but 14 if I had to pick one
Sand Hills: 9

Winner: Sand Hills 9

« **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:04:19 PM »

Mark, I would say 14 is one of the best holes at Merion! If I had to choose, I would say 1 or 10.

The only other one I can give input on is PV, I will say hole 14 there.

Mark

« **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:11:48 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on February 13, 2012, 11:47:32 AM

Quote from: PCraig on February 13, 2012, 11:44:40 AM
The 18th at Cypress Point is a good and obvious start.

Pat,

I have never played either course. Is the 18th at Cypress a worse hole than any of the 18 at Pebble?

In my opinion yes. I have no idea where you are supposed to hit the tee shot with all those trees in the fairway.

« **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:15:03 PM »

JK are there ten GCA'ers who've been to or played all of the above?

« **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:26:14 PM »

Bill,
I agree it is a tight landing area, but considering how short the hole is and the variety of clubs you can hit offf the tee to get into the fairway, I believe the critism is overdone.
The intimidation fcator of the trees is tremendous, becasue once you get nto the fairway it is actually not that narrow.
The scond shot is tough to that great green complex, that is not very receptive to any wandering shot....in my opinion better than aboutfour holes at Pebble...numbers 3-13-15 and 16...but that is what makes gca so marevelous we all have our own traits and hates.

« **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:58:40 PM »

17th at Pebble.

« **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2012, 01:00:25 PM »

It's a good thing courses should be evaluated on their whole, rather than by their parts.

« **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2012, 04:16:04 PM »

Not sure if its a clunker but 8 at Shinnicock is rather mundane compared to the rest of the holes.

« **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2012, 05:55:59 PM »

The 18th at Somerset Hills is a bit of a let down, but the idea was to get you back to the clubhouse, which it certainly does.

« **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:02:28 PM »

17 at Pebble

« **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:18:01 PM »

1 at Pebble for me (not played Augusta, Winged Foot or Sand Hills). Just a very average hole in my opinion.

17 at Pebble also enters the equation, as does 3 now those horrific bunkers are on the far side of the fairway.

I love many of the holes at Pebble, but it has some mundane holes in my opinion.

« **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:24:54 PM »

Is 7 at ANGC now a clunker, at least for the Masters?

I have not played it.

« **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:40:20 PM »

Quote from: Mark Saltzman on February 13, 2012, 11:59:43 AM

Pebble: 16

This may be the first time I've seen this here. I think 16 is wonderful and is one of favorites on the course. Number 1 there is easliy the worst.

I agree with Mr Palmer, 18 at CPC gets a bad rap. I like it.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:47:31 PM »

Quote from: Mark McKeever on February 13, 2012, 12:04:19 PM

Mark, I would say 14 is one of the best holes at Merion! If I had to choose, I would say 1 or 10.

The only other one I can give input on is PV, I will say hole 14 there.

Mark

10 is a very cool short four (I love the orientation of the green there), but I agree with you on 1. Maybe it's different to play it rather than spectate, but for being picked as one of the best starting holes in the world, it was very unimpressive. I've played a few in the Philly area that I like better as starting holes.

« **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:53:29 PM »

My knees and hands were shaking too much for me be able to notice anything and to make an educated architectural comment about Merion #1.

« **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:08:43 PM »

Quote from: Mark Saltzman on February 13, 2012, 06:53:29 PM

My knees and hands were shaking too much for me be able to notice anything and to make an educated architectural comment about Merion #1.

I guess that's the effect of that hole: the patio just clouds everyone's judgment on its lack of architectural merit.

« **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:14:05 PM »

In 1965 Dan Jenkins in SI picked the best 18 in America. His selection for a first hole was the first at Merion.

« **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2012, 07:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Cliff Hamm on February 13, 2012, 07:14:05 PM

In 1965 Dan Jenkins in SI picked the best 18 in America. His selection for a first hole was the first at Merion.

I've read that book several times. I still don't get why he picked 1. Actually, I don't know why he picked 11 either. There are so many unique holes out there, and I think those two have to be among the weakest on the course.

« **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2012, 08:09:51 PM »

It seems to be the "11" club....

1. AUGUSTA NATIONAL G.C. = #18

2. PINE VALLEY G.C. = #11

3. SHINNECOCK HILLS G.C. = #13

4. OAKMONT C.C. = #11

5. CYPRESS POINT CLUB = #11

6. PEBBLE BEACH G. LINKS = #11

7. MERION G.C. (East) = #11

8. WINGED FOOT G.C. (West) = #5

9. SAND HILLS G.C. = #3

10. NATIONAL G. LINKS OF AMERICA = #2

News:

John Kavanaugh

PCCraig

John Kavanaugh

PCCraig

jeffwarne

Michael Wharton-Palmer

Mark Saltzman

Mark McKeever

Bill_McBride

Mark Chaplin

Michael Wharton-Palmer

Andy Stamm

Adam Clayman

Jeff Evagues

Bruce Katona

Matthew Essig

Tom Birkert

Will MacEwen

David Stamm

JNC Lyon

Mark Saltzman

JNC Lyon

Cliff Hamm

JNC Lyon

Chip Gaskins

An Error Has Occurred!