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Terry Lavin

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Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 09:46:01 PM »
The Bogey tree near 12 green is a must see.

If you get a chance try to get a look at the approach to 18 from the right side of the fairway. It is hard to believe how much you need to fade the ball to hit the green.

David M,

I only know the course from after the renovations. I love the course more than I should, sorry.

Never apologize for being a rube.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2012, 09:50:32 PM »
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2012, 10:22:49 PM »
Doug Wright,

I agree with others that walking around is probably the best approach.  It is a very compact site so one can see quite a bit from most anywhere.  One thing that always amazes me is how much the wind off the ocean impacts the down canyon shots and how many of the pros fail to take this into consideration, especially on the short par threes. (This week has had an odd wind so it may be the opposite.)

David M,

I only know the course from after the renovations. I love the course more than I should, sorry.

No need to apologize, as there is plenty to love. I just don't get the yearly cheerleading for the changes, especially if you aren't familiar with what was there before.  And if you truly love the place, I don't understand why you are so dismissive of the opinions of those who know the place well and cringe at what has been done.  

I don't include myself as one who knows the place well before and after, but I do have a deep respect for the place and for the work of George Thomas and W.P. Bell.  Even with my limited knowledge, my respect for the design and for the place leads me to question whether or not such changes are in harmony with what was there.

So far as I can tell by your various comments over the years, either you don't care about such things or you think that the recent work is a good match for what was there before.  But I don't want to put words in your mouth, so let me ask . . .  When you are congratulating those responsible for these recent changes, for what exactly are you offering your congratulations?   Does it have anything to do with the degree to which the changes honored the aesthetics and playing characteristics of the original design?  
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 10:25:55 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2012, 10:46:26 PM »
David,

There was a period in my life where I would travel to LA on a regular basis.  Many members of Riviera treated me with the utmost respect for no more reason than our shared love of the game.  My congratulations go out to them for having a great course to enjoy and share with the golfing world. 

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2012, 10:59:10 PM »
I'm headed to Riviera for Sunday's final round--my first visit there. Is there anything in particular I should look for/at? I definitely want to see #10, sounds like #8 is notorious and the 18th green amphiteatre is cool. Anything else? Are there any particularly good viewing areas besides @ 18 green? Thanks.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.  I too recommend walking the course and do it if you can 1 thru 9 and 10 thru 18.  Then you can grasp the genius of the routing and how the holes are well mixed.
I don't think you can get to close, but study the 15th green.  It is one that has not been altered and it is most of the most unusual greens and least copied in the world.  I don't know why it is not copied more.
Look at the banks on the right of #2 green and left of #18 green.  Before Kikuyu, a ball could be played up there and it would often roll down onto the green.
Sitting on the bank above the 9th green can be fun.  Sometimes while waiting for a group to go through you can go up to #3 tee and get very close.
Although it is hard to see because you are at ground level, the 10th green and then watching players hit on 11 tee is always fun.


It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2012, 11:45:45 PM »
John, you referenced Tom Marzolf in the subject heading.  So why so coy now?
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2012, 01:53:30 AM »
Thank you all for your suggestions. I usually like to see a course without advance prep and try to figure it out myself but (a) I know many of you knwo Riviera well and (b) who knows when I'll get back there. I'm really looking forward to seeing the course.
Twitter: @Deneuchre

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2012, 11:14:04 AM »
Geoff Shackelford has a few interesting posts with before/after photos of how some Riviera holes have evolved:


#6 front bunker
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/14/rivieras-6th-1929-and-today.html


#10 greenside bunkers
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/16/above-rivieras-10th-before-greenside-bunkers-added.html


#18 amphitheater behind green
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/15/rivieras-amphitheater-then-and-now.html

Here is one more early photo at the sixth.  There is a less cropped and slightly clearer version on page 177 in Geoff Shackelford's excellent book on George Thomas, "The Captain."


Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2012, 04:08:07 PM »
Different year, same thread.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2012, 04:16:11 PM »
Different year, same thread.

Different thread, same post  ;D

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2012, 05:40:20 PM »
Different year, same thread.

Maybe, but about every year there are more changes.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera is Marzolous New
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2012, 08:30:26 PM »
Me thinks that the beloved (on this site) 10th hole with the balls, club head speeds and strong athletic ball strikers in the pro ranks has become a little too soft, too easy and obsolete until summertime when the course is dryer and firmer when the slightly off line shot just keeps going ....

( I am sure I am wrong .... but)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 08:32:35 PM by Carl Rogers »
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner