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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
I like 14 at Pebble..
« on: February 12, 2012, 05:07:25 PM »
but if I remember correctly some /many bitch about the green ..

but the hole requires 3 good shots

Phil and someone else have stopped their wedge shots close

these guys are so good and have so much technology that I think its great that they have to hit a GREAT wedge shot to get it close

agree?
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Mark Provenzano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2012, 05:57:49 PM »
Not sure if it's been mentioned here, but Mark Purdy (local columnist--San Jose Mercury-News) had this blurb:

"Mini-scoop from Proam: When Arnold Palmer visited Pebble last wk, he finalized plans to totally rebuild 14th green + minor changes at No.2."
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Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2012, 06:04:17 PM »
Were many of the (2010) criticisms of Pebble due to the shaved banks that caused a lot of ping pong amongst those that missed with their approach? It seems the penalty for missing a little left is slightly mitigated by leaving typical rough there.
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Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2012, 06:33:43 PM »
Wonder if they will soften the slope to allow for front pin placements.

Has anyone played it with a front right pin?
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2012, 06:58:46 PM »
Seeing how difficult this green plays for the pros, when they just have a wedge in hand...

...makes me think it must be absolutely brutal for a mid to high capper.
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Ian Andrew

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2012, 07:38:10 PM »
Quote from: Sean Leary on February 12, 2012, 06:33:43 PM
Has anyone played it with a front right pin?

In 1989 Dad and I had a middle right pin - fast as lightening - but was able to play a running approach to leave a birdie putt.
Next putt was "much" longer than the first.   ;D
It was super fast even at that speed.

Saw a ball stay on the right on Tuesday this week past!
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2012, 08:50:18 PM »
Is it the green or green speeds ?

For decades there was NO criticism of this hole/green.

Why the recent criticism ?

I've only played it a dozen times and never felt that it was "unfair"
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Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2012, 09:28:57 PM »
Pat,

IMO, US Open green speeds make #14 treacherous.  If I remember correctly, the areas back and left of the green were shaved down which resulted in extremely difficult recovery shots.  Furthermore, players approaching the green with their 3rd shots had a small margin of error to work with.  The margin of error was roughly the size of an office desk.  That small workable surface area plus the firmness of the green lead to quite a bit of ping-ponging during the Open.

When a number of major champions as well as some of the top ranked golfers in the world card triple bogeys or worse, the hole is going to draw some criticism.

Love the hole though.  It's probably the most difficult three shot par-5 IMO.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 09:38:45 PM by Ron Csigo »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2012, 09:39:31 PM »
Ron,

Then why was there NO CRITICISM of yhe hole from the best golfers in the world for about the first 70 years of the holes existence?

Why was it a great hole and green until recently ?
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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2012, 09:44:30 PM »
It is a great hole. I think each shot is a challenge. There is no easy shot to the green. And for the mortal man getting up an down if you miss is just as tough.
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Andy Troeger

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2012, 11:02:21 PM »
I think its a fine hole. The set-up at the US Open was over-the-top, but I saw nothing wrong with the way it was set up the past couple days for the pro-am or for regular play when I was there. Its a great par five where making a five is a good score no matter the level of player.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2012, 11:11:30 PM »
Ron,

What are your thoughts on # 7 at Shinnecock Hills based on how it played in the Open ?

Should that hole/green be modified ?
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Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 11:26:00 PM »
A green structure like #14 would not be built today...and thus should NEVER be touched.  Very fun hole.  My wife is about a 24 handicap and got up and down from 60 yards to the Sunday pin.  Her caddie still owes her a beer.
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Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 11:29:12 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 12, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Ron,

Then why was there NO CRITICISM of yhe hole from the best golfers in the world for about the first 70 years of the holes existence?

Why was it a great hole and green until recently ?

Pat,

The hole is still good but when you have wedge shots catapulting over the green in the Open, how is the hole fair?  How many tour pros carded a triple bogey or worse during this weeks tournament compared to the 2010 US Open?
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Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2012, 11:32:31 PM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 12, 2012, 11:11:30 PM
Ron,

What are your thoughts on # 7 at Shinnecock Hills based on how it played in the Open ?

Should that hole/green be modified ?

Are you referring to the 2004 set-up of the hole?
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2012, 11:43:15 PM »
Quote from: Ron Csigo on February 12, 2012, 11:29:12 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 12, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Ron,

Then why was there NO CRITICISM of yhe hole from the best golfers in the world for about the first 70 years of the holes existence?

Why was it a great hole and green until recently ?

Pat,

The hole is still good but when you have wedge shots catapulting over the green in the Open, how is the hole fair?  How many tour pros carded a triple bogey or worse during this weeks tournament compared to the 2010 US Open?

Ron,

I've hit mid-irons to wedges into that hole and never had a problem and neither did the golfers I was playing with.

For 70 or so years there wasn't a problem with the hole.

NOW, because some Pros in the US Open made triples you want to disfigure the hole ?  ?  ?

Maybe they can get get a discount on design and construction fees by throwing in # 7 at SHCC
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2012, 11:44:03 PM »
Quote from: Ron Csigo on February 12, 2012, 11:32:31 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 12, 2012, 11:11:30 PM
Ron,

What are your thoughts on # 7 at Shinnecock Hills based on how it played in the Open ?

Should that hole/green be modified ?

Are you referring to the 2004 set-up of the hole?

Yes
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Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2012, 11:52:23 PM »
I absolutely agree with Patrick; I CAN'T STAND IT when pros always get their way and can have a golf course modified because it is too hard. #7 at SH was unfair but 14 at PB is completely fair. Pros have fits when they can't easily birdie a par 5... It is ridiculous!!!!!
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2012, 11:55:05 PM »
Ron,

There's NOTHING wrong with the hole.

You're confusing conditions and isolated preparation with the architecture.
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Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2012, 12:08:41 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 12, 2012, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Ron Csigo on February 12, 2012, 11:29:12 PM
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 12, 2012, 09:39:31 PM
Ron,

Then why was there NO CRITICISM of yhe hole from the best golfers in the world for about the first 70 years of the holes existence?

Why was it a great hole and green until recently ?

Pat,

The hole is still good but when you have wedge shots catapulting over the green in the Open, how is the hole fair?  How many tour pros carded a triple bogey or worse during this weeks tournament compared to the 2010 US Open?

Ron,

I've hit mid-irons to wedges into that hole and never had a problem and neither did the golfers I was playing with.

For 70 or so years there wasn't a problem with the hole.

NOW, because some Pros in the US Open made triples you want to disfigure the hole ?  ?  ?

Maybe they can get get a discount on design and construction fees by throwing in # 7 at SHCC

A no point during our discussion did I suggest that these two holes needed to be disfigured.

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Patrick_Mucci

Re: I like 14 at Pebble..
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2012, 12:20:05 AM »
Ron,

Reread your reply # 13.

That seems pretty clear to me
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Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: I like 14 at Pebble.. New
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2012, 12:32:31 AM »
Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on February 13, 2012, 12:20:05 AM
Ron,

Reread your reply # 13.

That seems pretty clear to me

Pat,

The point I was trying to make there is that course conditions are much firmer in a US Open setup versus a regular tour event.  Therefore, you can't have that green play so firm during an Open when you have good wedge shots catapulting over the green.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 12:42:32 AM by Ron Csigo »
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