[Mike_Trenham]

I plan to lead a series of "Where did it start?" threads this year.  So if you have ideas send me a message.

First of is a non-architecture topic of the much disliked clubhouse minimum?

Who knows facts about its incarnation and is it used in other countries outside the US?  I know that at my club unused minimum is a key to balancing the budget each year, and we have a good facility and well above average food for a golf/country club.

[Matthew Mollica]

For most clubs, I think it's a good idea, to ensure financial certainty, and member engagement.

We had one at The National (Mornington Peninsula, Australia) from my time there in the late 1990's.

I'm now at Kingston Heath where there is no required / minimum spend,
and things work very well, with balanced books, great food, nice wine list and good service.

MM

[Tim Martin]

I agree that on balance it is a good idea and requires everyone to have some skin in the game. During the golf season it is money that is usually spent with very little effort. For the northeastern clubs it can become a sticking point in the off season when people are not really using the club but does provide cash flow to keep the operation rolling. I don`t have a clue as to it`s origination.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Minimums have always confused me.

Al Prokop, managing partner at Blackhawk Golf Club (Edmonton, Alberta, Canada) said it best: "If we have to use a minimum, it means no one wants to come to the club for dinner, drinks, etc." At that point, he said he'd take a look at why that was the case rather than simply invoke a minimum for members.

I think that's smart. Makes to sense to me.

[Ken Moum]

The problem, I think, is that it perpetuates the charade that non-golf parts of the club are somehow financially important to the future of the place.  While I understand that there may be clubs where food does contribute in some way, the places where I have been a member it clearly wasn't.

Sadly, thanks to the smoke-and-mirrors manner in which clubs (at least the ones around here)  keep their books, boards and managers often believe that F&B subsidizes the golf course, which leads them to spend unholy sums of money on new or remodeled clubhouses.

The course I grew up on did it, only to be saved at the last minute by some benefactors with money.  

The club I currently belong to went broke thanks to a clubhouse loan.

One of the other two country clubs here did it as well.

The one remaining club owes a butt-load of money on it's clubhouse thanks to a remodeling job done a few years ago.

The only other Donald Ross in the area went broke thanks to a clubhouse and pool loan.

In the 21st Century F&B is a loser and food minimums only perpetuate the myth that they aren't.

K

[Mike_Trenham]

Why not a guest fee minimum, much higher margin sale and who does not buy their guest food and drinks?

Is the F&B minimum something that the city dining clubs created?

[Jon Wiggett]

Why the need for a minimum spend. If the F&B side of things work then franchise it out and if it doesn't work why bother having one?

Jon

[Bob_Huntley]

This is a particular pet peeve of mine. When you see a minimum approaching a couple of thousand dollars a year you realize that Food and Beverage is more important to some Club directors than being a golf club. At one time, Club dining was not a full time service and was probably less expensive than the local restaurants, today it is equally or more expensive. One particular ploy is to charge a 15% Service Fee with the money going to the General Fund, not to the employees. Can someone let me know of any Club that does not have a F&B deficit?

Bob

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know where it started, but the whole point of the clubhouse minimum is for the minority who don't dine at the club to subsidize the majority who do/did ... and to front some cash to an operation that almost inevitably loses money!

[Mike_Trenham]

Most clubs are dominated by free market republicans but they are fine with clubhouse minimums.  Maybe this is their idea of a flat tax or maybe it is a weath transfer from the members able to aford "fine dining".

[JMEvensky]

Food minimums are just dues by another name.

The idea is that "fine dining" is integral to most clubs--even though this hasn't really been the case since Eisenhower.But,most Boards/GM's figure,we've already got the sunk costs so we better find a way to cover them.

Any club with substantial unspent minimums is a club with an unhappy membership.In today's environment,unhappy members don't complain,they resign.

[Jon Wiggett]

I don't know where it started, but the whole point of the clubhouse minimum is for the minority who don't dine at the club to subsidize the majority who do/did ... and to front some cash to an operation that almost inevitably loses money!

 Tom,

I do not know where you are talking about but here in the UK there are not so many clubs where the majority dine at the club on a regular basis. If a restaurant/bar has 600 members and still loses money then its either doing something wrong or its not viable. Having said that it is the right of a private club to do this and members know this when they join.

I do have a slight suspicion that meddling committees might not help

Jon

[Mike_Trenham]

While not a fan of the minimum I was hoping for more historic perspective, we know how people feel about it today but when did we slide down this slippery slope?

[Jeff Shelman]

We have a F&B minimum at my club of $250/quarter.  It isn't a big deal during the golf season or even the fourth quarter of the year.

This time of the year, it is much more difficult to use.

Fortunately, I work less than 15 minutes from my club. I've been going over about once a week for lunch. It isn't bad, it isn't too overpriced and I do have to eat. Generally I'm one of a small handful of people there. I bring my ipad with me and read while I'm there.

The good news is that the service is quick. I don't love it, but it is part of the deal.

[Chris Kane]

For most clubs, I think it's a good idea, to ensure financial certainty, and member engagement.

I agree with this, but it depends on what sort of facility the club is ensuring certainty for.

At Commonwealth, we have a 'usable advance' of $400 per year, which is easily spent on a round of drinks once a fortnight. The clubhouse is open for lunch six days per week - really good food but nothing spectacular. The club doesn't open for dinner outside functions. Members are able to spend their advance on wine, so you see lots of members walking out of the club with a couple of cases towards the end of the year!

If the usable advance was necessary to provide certainty for a fine dining facility open for dinner, I would be among many objectors. That isn't something worth artificially propping up in my view.

[Tim Martin]

For most clubs, I think it's a good idea, to ensure financial certainty, and member engagement.

I agree with this, but it depends on what sort of facility the club is ensuring certainty for.

At Commonwealth, we have a 'usable advance' of $400 per year, which is easily spent on a round of drinks once a fortnight. The clubhouse is open for lunch six days per week - really good food but nothing spectacular. The club doesn't open for dinner outside functions. Members are able to spend their advance on wine, so you see lots of members walking out of the club with a couple of cases towards the end of the year!

If the usable advance was necessary to provide certainty for a fine dining facility open for dinner, I would be among many objectors. That isn't something worth artificially propping up in my view.

That is a very interesting practice of being able to purchase wine to take off site against the minimum or "usable advance". Is that common in Australia? I can`t say I have heard of it at any North East U S clubs.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tim,
In CT. you are allowed to take one bottle of wine out of any restaurant as long as it's been partially consumed onsite, but it must be recorked and bagged before it goes out the door. 

[Tim Martin]

Tim,
In CT. you are allowed to take one bottle of wine out of any restaurant as long as it's been partially consumed onsite, but it must be recorked and bagged before it goes out the door.  

Jim- That is a bit different than taking an unopened case of wine from a private club which is being charged off against a member`s account.

[Chris Kane]

Tim, I have no idea whether its common among other clubs in Australia which have a usable advance. Commonwealth has a large cellar (overseen by a Wine Committee!) and sells quite a lot of wine to the members; I'm not sure if this is the case at other clubs.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I can tell you how it started at my club. The food was just regular bar food.  Burgers, a few dinner types, steak and potatoes.  The selection was small and the food passable.  Complaints were rampant. It was decided that if the membership wanted top quality food we would have to ensure that it was financially viable. Hence, the minimum. It made a difference and I find that I would rather eat at the club than other restaurants. If we fIl to spen our minimum for the quarter we get a gift certificate that can be used anytime.

[Tim Martin]

Tim, I have no idea whether its common among other clubs in Australia which have a usable advance. Commonwealth has a large cellar (overseen by a Wine Committee!) and sells quite a lot of wine to the members; I'm not sure if this is the case at other clubs.

Thanks Chris.

[Pete_Pittock]

I don't know where or when things started but I remember that when Portland (OR) GC instituted a dining minimum ($8/dinner) in 1960 he quit the club. To out things in perspective four years earlier the Presidents Ball was $5, caddy fees were $3.25, lessons $3.50.

[Mark Johnson]

This is one of my pet peeves too.

But forcing a minimum, standards will invariably fall since they is not sign on whether or not there is a probably in the kitchen.

My parents club has an interesting compromise.

No minimums, but a $40 per month service charge.   This covers the wages and gratuitys servers and FOH staff.   The result is effectively lowering pricing, but ultimately the restaurant needs to get people in the door to justify itself.

[Ian Andrew]

Where will it end might be a better question.

Minimums, annual dues and the clubhouse assesment are the same as 40 unaccompanied rounds at my local private course.
Since I would only play five to ten rounds a year in the afternoon, what a simple decision.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tim,
In CT. you are allowed to take one bottle of wine out of any restaurant as long as it's been partially consumed onsite, but it must be recorked and bagged before it goes out the door.  

Jim- That is a bit different than taking an unopened case of wine from a private club which is being charged off against a member`s account.

Exactly. 

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