Apache Stronghold: Current Reports???

[Sean_A]

Thanks all.  My mate stopped in for a game and was mightily impressed.  He said the course is unbelievable value and the conditioning issues were minor considering the quality of the course for $25 (is this right - $25?).

Ciao

[Tom Yost]

Thanks all.  My mate stopped in for a game and was mightily impressed.  He said the course is unbelievable value and the conditioning issues were minor considering the quality of the course for $25 (is this right - $25?).

Ciao

I think that is the riding rate.  

Your mate must be exceptional.

[Tom MacWood]

Sean
A fascinating thread, I was going to ask what sparked your interest in starting it until reading your last post. I knew it was a good course, but now I have new appreciation.

TD
I'm curious why you feel the need to influence what others feel is your best course. Once you build it don't you think it is our of your hands what others think? I think all my children are fantastic in their own way.

[Tom_Doak]

TD
I'm curious why you feel the need to influence what others feel is your best course. Once you build it don't you think it is our of your hands what others think? I think all my children are fantastic in their own way.

Tom:

I don't know why I bother saying anything on these threads, because I can't win no matter what I say.  A few guys say such-and-such is my best course, and there is an immediate reaction that they must be crazy to think it's that one, and then [in the case of Apache Stronghold] the discussion devolves to arguments about the poor conditioning of the place.  I am glad to see Sean's friend's report that they are doing better.

If one of your kids was struggling with personal issues would you want them to be the focus of attention?  I'd guess you would want people to give them a bit of a break until they managed to sort some things out.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

One thing is certain, this course has had a cult following on here for many years. It is much deserved as well. The conditioning issue is real. I personally do not think it belongs in a comparison to the best Tom's work or top 5 either. That little place called Desert Forest is a pretty good desert course too.

[scott_wood]

report from last week...new super Jim Lawrence has a daunting task......this was my third visit  (2001, 2006)....Td designed a wonderful wonderful golf course which for all the varied reasons discussed over the years is not in good playing shape...BUT IT IS FUN!!!!.......many, many rough spots/patches throughout the course, BUT, greens rolled pretty well , considering....the green contours are absouletely incredibly challenging wihtout the extremes that many subsequent TD courses exhibit in spots.....
in some ways this may be, imo, one of Doak's best designs......variation of holes, strategy, f&f, angles all compelling.....Sat was a Chamber of Commerce day, with a sold out c&w concert that night at teh casino , and we were one of 3 cars ( and 10 pick ups  )  in the parking lot....$25 for 18 with cart and unlimited bottled water and bar snacks!!...YES, WORTH A VISIT if you at all profess to be a fan of Golf Architecture..... and the ride from Phoenix, approximatley an hour+ is enjoyable and scenic..

[Tim Pitner]

....the green contours are absouletely incredibly challenging wihtout the extremes that many subsequent TD courses exhibit in spots.....

Thanks for the report, Scott. 

Care to elaborate on the above point?  To which subsequent courses, and which spots, were you referring?  Just curious.

[scott_wood]

Tim, not sure whcih "point"...but.....

conditioning: very sparse grass tee to green, bunkers in process of complete "renovation/reconditioning"
( ie no sand in most..work ongoing) BUT playable, ebjoyable, as long as you don't place an overwhelming priority re "conditions",
which I don't.....

One of his better designs: have played many TD USA courses, and think the totality of design ( mix/variety of holes, interestingly complex greens, without being "ovedone", elevation chnges, angles...make it one of his better designs...a very subjective pov, but I do get around...have played High Pointe, Beechtree, Quail Crossing, Black Forest, Stonewall, Pac Dunes, OM, Stone Eagle, Tumble creek, Rock Creek, Lost Dunes, and Ballyneal, and the co-design @ Sebonack,and the renovation @ Atlantic City....

I admittedly have a bias towrds the "GCA Style"....   

[Tim Pitner]

Scott,

The point I was inquiring about is the view that some Doak greens are extreme or overdone--you're far from the only one who apparently has this opinion but I was wondering to which courses/greens you were referring.  I confess I don't tend to share that view but you get around more than I do. 

[Ross Harmon]

For $25, I think I'll be checking AS out next time I'm in PHX!

[Jim Johnson]

Thanks for the update. I look forward to giving AS a shot, perhaps in mid-September. Hopefully that'll be a decent time of year - weatherwise - to play there.

JJ