Butler and women members?

[Bill Seitz]

Some of the comments also suggest that the place doesn't have a real kitchen or dining facilities.  ("As it stands the club just offers premade sandwiches and a full bar.") That hasn't been my experience; in fact, every time I've been there, I've been told to "order whatever you want and they'll make it," and they have. 

Carl, I believe Jud's comment regarding the food options was in reference to Black Sheep, not Butler. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Vince Pellegrino, the BMW tournament director, said “If the membership policy changes at Butler, the BMW Championship would be interested, because it's a good golf course", but added that  "we've had no discussions with them and haven't heard anything.”

[Carl Nichols]

Some of the comments also suggest that the place doesn't have a real kitchen or dining facilities.  ("As it stands the club just offers premade sandwiches and a full bar.") That hasn't been my experience; in fact, every time I've been there, I've been told to "order whatever you want and they'll make it," and they have. 

Carl, I believe Jud's comment regarding the food options was in reference to Black Sheep, not Butler. 

Bill:
I think you (and Tim) are right -- see my comment above.

But given that Butler already has a serious kitchen/dining facility, that's one of the reasons why it doesn't seem like it would take that much work to convert the clubhouse to co-ed. 

[Mike Nuzzo]

How much would it cost for 17 ladies tees

Why build more tees?
I would think they could find women that could handle the regular tees

[Sam Morrow]

I don't understand why a lady would want to be the first out there. She will be a strange novelty plus if she looks like everything is in the right place every dirty old man will be on that like stink on a turd.

[Tim_Cronin]

How much would it cost for 17 ladies tees

Why build more tees?
I would think they could find women that could handle the regular tees

I'm not sure how many of the current membership can really handle the regular tees. I wrote 17 rather than 18 on the presumption that the "Paul Butler Tee" still exists forward of Salt Creek on the 18th. Paul had a habit of topping his drive into the creek at the last.

[JR Potts]

The food and dining services are as good as you'll find anywhere.  In fact, the serivce is as good as you'll find anywhere - in every facet of operations.  But therein is the rub. If they were to admit women, they would likely have to and want to provide that same level of service to all members - be it female or male.  And in order to provide that service (for an unknown and likely minuscule female membership pool), they would have to expend a ton of money in infrastructure and service costs...costs that very well may not make sense...in this economy or any economy.

[Jud_T]

Mike,

I'd guess the whites at Butler for women would be something like a 77 rating and a 150 slope.  So unless they're only offering a couple token memberships to LPGA players, which might in fact be the plan, new tees would certainly be needed.

[Terry Lavin]

Sorry, Anonymous Ghost!  It's going to happen.  There were a number of the old founders who were dead set against women members.  Now, they're just dead.  The "younger" guys who now populate and run the club didn't push this issue out of deference to the founders, but now that generation is gone and they need to get the next generation of members.  Getting rid of the no women rule facilitates new members and a return to professional golf.  It's a smart business decision and one that will be made within the next year or so.  Butler was designed with professional golf in mind and you can't have pro golf with discriminatory policies.  Butler is slow to dance to the tune, but the band is getting set up and the dance floor will be full sometime in the not so distant future.

[Terry Lavin]

Don't Stop... Believin'....

Hold on to that Fee-eee-ling....  

(BTW, that "the old guard is dead" argument was the jist of Sherman's explanation as to why the change was imminent the first time he wrote this article about 6 or 7 years ago...)

Don't compare my insight to that of Ed Sherman.  That's beyond the pale!   

His "gist" was wrong when he wrote that 6-7 years ago for any number of reasons, but many things have changed in just the past couple years.

[Jud_T]

Perhaps paying a pretty penny as a downstroke and a fairly large guest fee for a male-only brutal championship test made sense when there were plenty of corporate expense accounts that didn't blink when a $1000+ bill came through accounting.  I'm guessing economic reality, and not moral suasion, has set in since the bubble burst.

[JR Potts]

Sorry, Anonymous Ghost!  It's going to happen.  There were a number of the old founders who were dead set against women members.  Now, they're just dead.  The "younger" guys who now populate and run the club didn't push this issue out of deference to the founders, but now that generation is gone and they need to get the next generation of members.  Getting rid of the no women rule facilitates new members and a return to professional golf.  It's a smart business decision and one that will be made within the next year or so.  Butler was designed with professional golf in mind and you can't have pro golf with discriminatory policies.  Butler is slow to dance to the tune, but the band is getting set up and the dance floor will be full sometime in the not so distant future.

The "younger members" I know are not supportive of any change.  By then again, my social circle is a little more right-leaning than your gaggle of liberals.  

[Mike Hendren]

Even more amazing, so is Belle Meade.

Bogey

[Terry Lavin]

What the Honourable One fails to fully grasp is that the type of thinking that he considers mainstream and to which he is naturally accustomed simply disappears when one crosses Harlem Avenue going west.  The folks in DuPage County think a little differently than the high-brows in the 4th or 44th wards...

This is just one man's opinion, but the old guard at a place like Butler is being, and will continue to be, replaced by their progeny - who think and believe what they were taught by the old guard.  Ozzie and Harriet still live.  And they live in DuPage County.   

Gotta think about a golf wager. One that doesn't involve Canal Shores.

[JMEvensky]

Perhaps paying a pretty penny as a downstroke and a fairly large guest fee for a male-only brutal championship test made sense when there were plenty of corporate expense accounts that didn't blink when a $1000+ bill came through accounting.  I'm guessing economic reality, and not moral suasion, has set in since the bubble burst.

I don't know the first thing about Butler National,but finances are driving just about every decision every place else.Hard to believe they're immune.

The Tribune article listed 3(?) other male only clubs in Chicago.Is there much overlap in the memberships?

[David Egan]

Perhaps paying a pretty penny as a downstroke and a fairly large guest fee for a male-only brutal championship test made sense when there were plenty of corporate expense accounts that didn't blink when a $1000+ bill came through accounting.  I'm guessing economic reality, and not moral suasion, has set in since the bubble burst.

I don't know the first thing about Butler National,but finances are driving just about every decision every place else.Hard to believe they're immune.

The Tribune article listed 3(?) other male only clubs in Chicago.Is there much overlap in the memberships?

There is a little overlap between Butler and Bob O'Link and Old Elm and Bob O'Link.  But, just a little.

[Kalen Braley]

What the Honourable One fails to fully grasp is that the type of thinking that he considers mainstream and to which he is naturally accustomed simply disappears when one crosses Harlem Avenue going west.  The folks in DuPage County think a little differently than the high-brows in the 4th or 44th wards...

This is just one man's opinion, but the old guard at a place like Butler is being, and will continue to be, replaced by their progeny - who think and believe what they were taught by the old guard.  Ozzie and Harriet still live.  And they live in DuPage County.   

Shivas,

The scourge of sexism, was not, is not, and never will be static.  Look at how far women's rights and other options have become available to them just in the last 150 years. Womens suffrage was a huge deal in its time, even though most people today don't even know what it is.

So while I don't know the situation at Butler, history says sooner or later it will indeed change as has happened at nearly every other club in America over the last 100 years.

[C. Squier]

All you need is ONE female who puts up a check and insists no additional infrastructure except a bathroom be installed.  Their policy would be changed, the requisite one female member would be installed and the floodgates for the aforementioned would be opened.  Certainly there is a retired LPGA member or corporate golf exec who would fit the bill perfectly.  Likely a 2nd (3rd or 4th) club of their own and probably wouldn't visit very often.  Even better, an honorary membership with an understanding female golf "legend", a photo op and directions back to the airport.

[Mark Smolens]

How much would it cost for 17 ladies tees

Why build more tees?
I would think they could find women that could handle the regular tees

Lol. . . they can't find that many men with handicaps above 5 who can "handle" the regular tees. . .

[Michael George]

What the Honourable One fails to fully grasp is that the type of thinking that he considers mainstream and to which he is naturally accustomed simply disappears when one crosses Harlem Avenue going west.  The folks in DuPage County think a little differently than the high-brows in the 4th or 44th wards...

This is just one man's opinion, but the old guard at a place like Butler is being, and will continue to be, replaced by their progeny - who think and believe what they were taught by the old guard.  Ozzie and Harriet still live.  And they live in DuPage County.   

Gotta think about a golf wager. One that doesn't involve Canal Shores.

If there is a bet - count me in.  I will take either side.  Just love the action!!!

[Sven Nilsen]

All you need is ONE female who puts up a check and insists no additional infrastructure except a bathroom be installed. 

The cell phone room right off the lobby would be perfect.  Turn the Grill into a Men's Grill and you're set.  Might need to block off the pro-shop so no female guests wander out into the wonderfully grand (and extremely open) men's locker room and lounge.

[Jud_T]

All you need is ONE female who puts up a check and insists no additional infrastructure except a bathroom be installed.  Their policy would be changed, the requisite one female member would be installed and the floodgates for the aforementioned would be opened.  Certainly there is a retired LPGA member or corporate golf exec who would fit the bill perfectly.  Likely a 2nd (3rd or 4th) club of their own and probably wouldn't visit very often.  Even better, an honorary membership with an understanding female golf "legend", a photo op and directions back to the airport.

Bingo.  Instant Tour stop, immediate bump in the rankings (Golf Digest editors have to run out and buy new Under Armour), couple dozen new members and housewives across Chicagoland are appeased all in one fell swoop.  Only losers are the guys that enjoy walking around with their junk hanging out and telling misogynistic jokes in an overly loud voice in the dining room after one too many quintuple Seabreezes...

[JR Potts]

after one too many quintuple Seabreezes...

Now those are fighting words.  Stop judging me!

[Jud_T]

JR,

That's pretty funny.  I must admit that the stiffest cocktails I've ever had on a golf course were at Butler, at the turn after the stakes of the match had just been raised exponentially...

[Carl Nichols]

All you need is ONE female who puts up a check and insists no additional infrastructure except a bathroom be installed.  Their policy would be changed, the requisite one female member would be installed and the floodgates for the aforementioned would be opened.  Certainly there is a retired LPGA member or corporate golf exec who would fit the bill perfectly.  Likely a 2nd (3rd or 4th) club of their own and probably wouldn't visit very often.  Even better, an honorary membership with an understanding female golf "legend", a photo op and directions back to the airport.

Bingo.  Instant Tour stop, immediate bump in the rankings (Golf Digest editors have to run out and buy new Under Armour), couple dozen new members and housewives across Chicagoland are appeased all in one fell swoop.  Only losers are the guys that enjoy walking around with their junk hanging out and telling misogynistic jokes in an overly loud voice in the dining room after one too many quintuple Seabreezes...

Agreed. I don't get why people think they'd need to offer identical locker rooms, etc.  They just need to say we're co-ed, have enough facilities to make that not a laughable statement, and then attract a few women members. The goal wouldn't be to get 200 new women members -- it would simply be to not be male only anymore, thereby allowing the course to be used on tour and the club to expand the ranks of potential members (male and female).