[Mark Woodger]

afternoon all.

I am playing a trip to scottsdale AZ in May prior to the birth of our first child. So the question is where to play:

Details:
Max i will play is 54 holes in 5 days most likely 36.
i am on my own but if anybody in the area wants to meet and have a game that would be cool with me PM if interested. 

I have no access to private courses so from what i can see in my brief internet searches the following are potentially ok options:

TPC Scottlsdale
Talking Stick
Saguaro @ WeKoPa (this looks to be the "best" course out of these)
Troon North @ Four Seasons

Any thoughts on these would be greatly appreciated and i have no shame in saying that if somebody wants to invite me to Whisper Rock I will be there! 

Thanks in advance for all your valuable input.
Mark

[Scott Stearns]

We Ko Pa best, but way outta town

I like troon--typical desert golf, but courses in good condition.

I'd avoid TPC--i didn't like factory atmosphere and couldnt play the tourney course.  Its close though.

Boulders in Carefree is good too--but a long way up there

[Carl Nichols]

Vista Verde is good, but also far from town and IMHO not as good as Saguaro, which would be my #1 seed of the public courses.

I thought one of the Grayhawk courses -- can't remember which one, it was over 10 years ago -- was pretty good.

[Cory Lewis]

My wife and I were there two weeks ago and our favorite publics were Wekopa Saguaro and The Boulders South.  If you have the time, I would highly recommend driving out to Sedona to play Seven Canyons.

[SL_Solow]

Mark;  How much desert golf have you played?  I have been going on and off for 20 plus years.  When Troon North was opened, it was extraordinary.  To say it is run of the mill desert golf merelyshows how much improvement there has been.  It is still avery good course given the limitations of the desert genre and worth the time.  We Ko is very good and worth going to if you have the time.  The advantage of going further out is there is less intrusion from housing, similar to Troon North when it opened.  the contrast between the desert and the golf course can border on the surreal.  Talking Stick has musch less interesting terrain but is very strategic with interesting greens and surrounds.  Additionally, since it is on Native American property, the irrigation restrictions do not apply.  TPC should be open post tournament.  In my opinion, it is not as bad as has been suggested, in fact there are some interesting risk reward holes.  It is worth playing but I would put it fourth on this list unless its location makes it the most desireable.

[Matthew Rose]

Vista Verde is good, but also far from town and IMHO not as good as Saguaro, which would be my #1 seed of the public courses.

I thought one of the Grayhawk courses -- can't remember which one, it was over 10 years ago -- was pretty good.

One is Fazio and the other is not, although I cannot remember who did it. Not a really big name firm, I don't think. I played that one, and I liked most of it, although the TPC Sawgrass #17 clone was kind of silly. It had very severe greens though. Seems like every single one of them was segmented into three and four levels.

I have also played Talking Stick and really liked both courses there and both courses at the TPC (although they redid the non-tournament one recently so I can't vouch for it).

Haven't played the others; it's been more than 10 years since I was there last. When I played those courses it was April and the weather was good and the conditions were immaculate. I suspect May it will be similar.

[Mark Woodger]

Mark;  How much desert golf have you played? 

The only desert golf i have played is Cabo Ocean and Cabo Palmilla so i a long way from an expert.

[Andy Troeger]

Just going off course quality...

I'd play We-Ko-Pa Saguaro first--I think its easily the best of the bunch.

If its still allowing public play, go up to Payson and play The Rim. In May the weather will be great and the course is stunning. I like it better than Seven Canyons, but both are good options. The Rim is a good hour from the Valley, Seven Canyons I think more like two, depending on where you are starting from.

I like Vista Verde. Gold Canyon's Dinosaur Mountain course is fun and has a few holes that are absolutely wonderful, but others that aren't so great. Both are Ken Kavanaugh designs. I also like Southern Dunes south of town, but its not especially close by either. SunRidge Canyon is a pretty decent option in Fountain Hills.

[Mark Smolens]

If you're negotiating golf days and want to play 36 holes, We-Ko-Pa is your best bet (Saguaro better, but Cholla's not bad, tho much harder to walk -- they'll let you use a Sun Mountain speed cart on Saguaro). Many good holes on each course at Troon North. Others from this Board are higher on Greyhawk than I am, but again there's two courses. They used to play a Nationwide event at Whirlwind, though the two courses there are quite similar (on the other hand, there's also a casino, as there is at Talking Stick which has 1 really good course and one that's not as good. You can play 36 at TPC, but I still don't think that the Stadium course is worth the $$.

I'd second Andy's recommendation of Southern Dunes, but Vista Verde is  for me one of the most fun public access courses in the Valley.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Another reason to have sections here in the Discussion Group for various locations/venues.

TPC Scottsdale,WeKoPa Saguaro and Troon North Monument are worth a  visit for the first time visitor limited to 3 golf days.. TPC is a course you can always say you played when you watch the PHX Open on TV. All may still be fairly pricey even in May.All are in the North Scottsdale area so stay nearby.

The next time you visit you can play Vista Verde, Gold Canyon Dinosaur,The Rim,  the 2 courses at Talking Stick and Superstition Mountain, Quintero, Southern Dunes,etc.

[Michael Essig]

Mark, I have played both Troons, both Greyhawks, We-ko-pa Seguro, Talking Stick North, Raven at South Mountain, and others, and they all play about the same.  We-ko-pa is probably at the top of my list, but it is a bit out of town.  Because they are all fairly similar, I look for the best deal.  At Greyhawk, I am on their email list, and they send out internet specials to my cellphone that are 50% or more off of list price.  I have paid as low as $69 for a 9:00 am tee time; regular price I think was $175 at that time.  Granted, I am usually a single, but getting out has never been an issue.

[Steve Salmen]

I'm going to Scottsdale for 9 days the day after the Chicago GCA dinner.

This thread has been really helpful but one course never seems to get mentioned.  My brother sometimes gets out to Chaparral Pines.  He's a heavy drinking golfer and knows little about architecture but really likes the course.  Has anyone played it?

[Howard Riefs]

A feature on Scottsdale and Phoenix from a recent issue of Golf Digest:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/golf-travel/buddies/2012-02/away-game-phoenix

[Andy Troeger]

Steve,
I like Chaparral Pines, but its private and like The Rim across the street its probably 90 minutes from Scottsdale. While its a good option in May, if you're going in February or March I'm not sure if it would be open.

The course itself doesn't fit the GCA profile either. Its fairly narrow with trouble on both sides, favors carts, and has a few odd holes. Its a fun course for a good golfer or one that doesn't take their play too seriously. It has a few great risk/reward or heroic type opportunities as well and the scenery is wonderful. There is a housing component, but it doesn't really intrude on the course.

If you're going to Payson and have access, its worth playing both Chaparral Pines and The Rim. For one round, I like The Rim better.

[Cory Lewis]

My brother sometimes gets out to Chaparral Pines.  He's a heavy drinking golfer and knows little about architecture but really likes the course.  Has anyone played it?

We played Chaparral Pines when we were out there two weeks ago.  I actually prefered it slightly to The Rim.  It is tighter and harder but I just liked the look of it more than The Rim.  That's not taking anything away from The Rim, both excellent courses.  Golf in Payson always depends on the weather in the winter.  When we were up there it was 65 and sunny, the pro told me the winter has been pretty mild and they are actually growing grass.  If your going to play in late February or March just take a look at the 10 day forecast before you call to see if they are getting any snow.

[Tom Yost]

Mark, I have played both Troons, both Greyhawks, We-ko-pa Seguro, Talking Stick North, Raven at South Mountain, and others, and they all play about the same...

IMO, Talking Stick N and Saguaro really stand apart from the other very typical CCFAD layouts built in Arizona during the "golf boom."   They are very noticeably "not like the others."

I thought one of the Grayhawk courses -- can't remember which one, it was over 10 years ago -- was pretty good.

One is Fazio and the other is not, although I cannot remember who did it. Not a really big name firm, I don't think. I played that one, and I liked most of it, although the TPC Sawgrass #17 clone was kind of silly. It had very severe greens though. Seems like every single one of them was segmented into three and four levels.

Arizona residents are quite familiar with Gary Panks, the architect for the Talon course at Grayhawk.  He is responsible for perhaps 20 or more courses in Arizona including Raven @ S. Mountain, Trilogy @ Vistancia, 2 courses at Whirlwind, Firerock CC. Chaparral Pines, and Sedona Golf Resort, to name a few high end projects. He has also contributed affordable municipal courses with Aguila in Phoenix, Antelope Hills in Prescott and Riverview in Mesa.   He partnered with David Graham for a period of time.  Panks' work is seldom discussed here.  I think he provides playable, fun, if not particularly remarkable layouts.  I will however, give him grief for being responsible for THREE island greens here in the greater PHX.  

[Bill_McBride]

Mark, there's a thread near the top right now about Apache Stronghold, which seems to be in playable condition.  It's a beautiful drive out to Globe and I think it's as good as anything I've played in Arizona.   It can be cold now but should be nice in May.   A day up there and back would be well spent, and at $25 would drive down your average cost per round!

I also really enjoyed the Gold Course at the Wigwam which Forrest Richardson renovated nicely a few years ago.   I don't think anyone's mentioned that either.

[Mark Johnson]

Mark,

Don't sleep on the Cholla course either, especially as a course for a 2nd round of the day.    I think they have packages where you are only paying around $70 for the 2nd round as well.    Well it might not have the scenicness of seguro, it is very solid and i would pick it over at least half of the courses on your list.

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