Pasatiempo & Stonewall - North

[George Freeman]

I was looking at Joe Bausch's nice photo tour of Stonewall - North (http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/StonewallNorth/index.html)
when I started thinking that a lot of the bunkers had a "MacKenzie" feel and look to them.  See a couple examples below:





Then when I saw the picture below, I instantly connected it to the MacKenzie bunker on #16 at Pasatiempo.



Tom – I’m curious, were you working on Stonewall – North and the restoration of Pasatiempo at the same time?  Am I correct that the inspiration for the bunker above was the bunker on #16 at Pasa?

On a larger picture, it’s interesting to see how an architect’s (Tom D. in this instance) bunker style varies over time and depending on the site.  I would call Stonewall – North’s bunker style fairly similar to Black Forest, but not at all like the bunker style on Stonewall – Old, which appears a little less intricate, with some bunkers looking like the bunkers at Lost Dunes.

Tom – how much does your bunker style for a given course depend on the property/site compared to your “style” at that specific time in your career?

[Tom_Doak]

George:

More than anything, my bunker style depends on what looks right on the ground, and also which of my crew actually does the bunker shaping.  At Stonewall, Gil Hanse built nearly all of the bunkers on the Old course [with a bulldozer], while on the North course, Kye Goalby and Bruce Hepner and Kyle Franz built the majority of the bunkers [with excavators, which makes a big difference in what you can shape, too].

The similarity to a California-style bunker look is deliberate; the similarity to Pasatiempo is mostly an accident.  Kye has done some of the restoration work at Pasatiempo with Jim Urbina, but Jim and Eric Iverson and Brian Slawnik were all working on The Rawls Course in Texas at the same time we were building Stonewall (North).

[Mike_Trenham]

Stonewall North deserves more interest.  Seems like when I talk to people they either really like/love the old course and favor tough tee to green course and are biased against the North.  And then around Philly there are people that don't like the original course and have a bias against the place as a whole.  I prefer the north course and it gets more rounds than the old as carts are allowed.

[Joe Bausch]

I thought my (albeit limited) photo tour both Stonewall courses together with promoting the Main Line Animal Rescue outing would lead to plenty of discussion, but perhaps people are tongue tied or something.  Or the pics just speak for themselves or stink. 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47891.0.html

[Philippe Binette]

Stonewall is a great place.

the Old course has some template holes or shots.
I felt 14th came out of Oakmont
6th green is not to dissimilar from merion 5th (inverted)

the North course has some more wild bunkering and the routing is cool. The 11th - 12th - 17th combinaison is sharp from the 17th tee especially.
both courses are rolling along the hills very smoothly. the bunkers and greens seems to be the only dirt work done.

Only hole I didn't get is 13th on the North. long par 3 (230), multiple bunkers, lake, small green... layup time ?

[JESII]

Or just make a 5 like I have a couple times...



In total, I'm not sure what to say about the North Course. I like it and could grow to love it but I'm not sure. Haven't played it with any bounce yet so that's likely the difference. The use of the stone wall is really great, what a great visual deception on 8th tee. It must be the sole reason I dance around those right bunkers each time.

[Bill_McBride]

Stonewall is a great place.

the Old course has some template holes or shots.
I felt 14th came out of Oakmont

Phillipe, 14th at Oakmont?  Or another hole at Oakmont?  (I haven't played Stonewall so no clue)

[Philippe Binette]

Not sure if its 14 or 16, but there's a hole that looks like the 1st at oakmont.

[Sean Leary]

Its 14.

[Bill_McBride]

Its 14.

So the 14th at Stonewall looks like the 1st (and presumably he 10th) at Oakmont?    460 yards downhill with a fall away green?  Cool.