[Howard Riefs]

P.S.  I have no idea who the eight are going to be -- I've got good guesses for six of them, but as to the others I have no clue.  But, anyone who put down Coore and Crenshaw is not going to get all 8 correct.  Both of them told me they had no intention of submitting a proposal.

We now know why Coore and Crenshaw aren’t participating, according to a short story in GolfWorld Monday.

http://www.golfworldmonday.com/golfworldmonday/20120130/?pg=13&pm=1&u1=friend#pg13

Ron Whitten writes that among firms that declined to participate, “Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw had no interest in compromising a design to handle spectator traffic.” 

Seems somewhat of a short-sided decision to me from afar.

We likely won't hear from the eight finalists if/how they had to significantly "compromise" their design. But, I'd be interested to learn if C&C's decision was specific to this site or a general philosophy.

If the latter, will they decline to pursue all other projects that have plans/ambitions of hosting a significant tournament? Did they have to compromise their restoration of Pinehurst No. 2 to accommodate spectators at the 2014 U.S. Open tournaments?

Thoughts?

[Jim Colton]

I just figured it was because Crenshaw didn't want to travel to Brazil.

[Sam Morrow]

I figured it was because Coore and Crenshaw didn't want to get involved with all the corruption that is The Olympics.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I don't think the spectator issue was the only one for them.
C&C didn't have a website until someone from GCA helped them. 

I'm sure they could have put together a great presentation, but I don't think that they spend much time thinking about presentations - or they certainly didn't have a go-by sitting on their desks.

I hope Pat had enough time to read this.  Hi Pat.   

Cheers

[Adam Clayman]

I assume it's their general philosophy. Their resto of the Deuce, had absolutely nothing to do with traffic flow. That infrastructure was in place long before they modified the mow lines and raised a few green surrounds. (I'm condensing their work, but it is amazing how little they had to do to the dirt)

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Isn't the site itself rather unspectacular. I understand it has sandy soil but isn't that where the requirements for the the kind of great courses they tend to build stops? As said here before it would be great to see Tom or Gil win the bid to see what they could do.

[Jeff_Brauer]

You know, the funny thing is that when almost any architect tells us why he didn't propose (or in some cases, wasn't selected) I take it with a grain of salt.  In CC's case, I believe that what they told Whitten was exactly the reason why they didn't do it.

How many times have we heard "only want to focus on one project at a time (I believe CC in this regard, too, whereas most of us are FORCED to work on one project (or less!) at a time......Bill and Ben are not pretentious and always have been totally honest with others and the press.  Of course, with their slow southern drawls, I suspect they wouldn't have gotten selected (at least not by Forrest!) because their interviews and sound bites would be too drawn out and long for good TV.......

That said, I would think most tour pros, including Ben, would understand the need for some separation of greens and tees to allow for circulation, and figure they could do it better than anyone based on their experience.  It is quite possible from what I have seen of that site, that there might not be any real compromises at all, unless having the next tee 150 feet away rather than 50 feet away is considered a big compromise by them.

[Garland Bayley]

Isn't the site itself rather unspectacular. I understand it has sandy soil but isn't that where the requirements for the the kind of great courses they tend to build stops? As said here before it would be great to see Tom or Gil win the bid to see what they could do.

The potato fields at Friar's Head were "rather unspectacular". It would seem they are very capable of handling "rather unspectacular".

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,

".........compromising a design to handle spectator traffic.” 
 
From memory not all Olympic events are overflowing with spectators. I suspect that golf spectating will not be high on the attendees list of must do pastimes while in Rio. Brazil is a country that does not have a history of golf as a sport or leisure pursuit so why should there be a flood of gawking individuals all of a sudden? It isn't at all clear to me at any rate which golfers may be representatives and I suspect that a goodly number of the players will not be household names.
The dispiriting tenor of this, my response, just demonstrates my continuing sense that golf really doesn't fit in with The Olympics! I think it is a daft idea!

Cheers Colin

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I am sorry but not surprised to see them drop out. There are still some players the GCA crowd cheers for in the hunt.

[Ian Andrew]

Remove the last four words and you get the real answer.

[Peter Pallotta]

As a hopefully soon-to-be-ex-smoker, I put my money on Ben not wanting to go the 8+ hour flight without a smoke.

Peter   

[Anthony Gray]

  Just doesn't make since to me.


  Anthony

[Ronald Montesano]

Too many cooks? Loss of complete control over execution of design?

[Ian Andrew]

Just doesn't make since to me.

Funny, makes all the sense in the world to me.

C&C pick their sites and are trusted to make the best decisions themselves.
The Olympic course is a fair to poor site working for a group that will meddle in those decisions.
I don't think Bill wants to spend days and days in meetings at this point in his career.

[JR Potts]

  Just doesn't make since to me.


  Anthony

X2

To each their own but seems weak to me.  If you want to be the best, you have to be nimble, undertake challenges that you're not comfortable with and take the big swings when such opportunities present themselves.  For better or worse, this job is the biggest thing in golf...and they never stepped foot on the field.  I don't get it...but I guess I don't have to as it's not my legacy or career.

Props to all those who took a swing for the betterment of their careers and the global game of golf.

[Mike Nuzzo]

JR
I admire your enthusiasm.

What if they had a prior commitment?
Either during the proposal phase or what would be the construction phase.
How would they tell their client that something else has come up and you will have to wait a year?

It just didn't fit for them.

Maybe they endorsed their favorite candidate to better the global game of golf.

Cheers

[Don_Mahaffey]

JR,
Did C & C ever state they wanted to be the best? I always felt like they were trying to do the absolute best they could for each and every client by getting the most out of the land and using their crews to be sure the work was of very high quality. They seem to have a process that works very well for them, and their clients.

Maybe they felt like they couldn't use their process, maybe the land didn't excite them, maybe they know they will be busy during the window for construction...or maybe they didn't want to worry about spectator traffic.

I've only met Bill C briefly, but he seemed to be about as nice and genuine as a man could be. I'd take him at his word if he told RW why he wasn't interested.

[Tom_Doak]

To each their own but seems weak to me.  If you want to be the best, you have to be nimble, undertake challenges that you're not comfortable with and take the big swings when such opportunities present themselves.  For better or worse, this job is the biggest thing in golf...and they never stepped foot on the field.  I don't get it...but I guess I don't have to as it's not my legacy or career.

Props to all those who took a swing for the betterment of their careers and the global game of golf.

Ryan:

Who says that Bill and Ben care about "being the best," or at least, being recognized as such by people outside their own close circle of friends?  One of the things I've always admired about them is that they don't care about whether a project has "top 100 potential."  All they care about is that it's a good project and a client who will let them do their best work.

For that matter, let me be clear that I didn't take a swing "for the betterment of [my] career."  Any architect who thinks this would be a good job to have because it will lead to other things, is missing the point entirely.  This is a great opportunity to build an important project in a BEAUTIFUL city, and to have a lasting impact on the development of golf in one part of the globe, the same way Dr. MacKenzie had a profound impact on golf in Australia from a single [extended] visit.  And it might get people to look at championship golf differently, too.

I really can't imagine how Bill could have put in a proposal, anyway.  He gets his feel for the design by walking the site for days on end, and they only let us go out to the site for five hours on one day in December!  Really, all the design proposals that the jury is reviewing today were made out of thin air.  No matter who is awarded the job, it wouldn't surprise me if the finished course is nothing like the one depicted in their proposals for the design jury, because once we know the site better we may have a very different take on what works [and possibly even what's allowed].

[JR Potts]

JR
I admire your enthusiasm.

What if they had a prior commitment?
Either during the proposal phase or what would be the construction ph
How would they tell their client that something else has come up and you will have to wait a year?

It just didn't fit for them.

Maybe they endorsed their favorite candidate to better the global game of golf.

Cheers

All I now is what I read in the article...and given what I read, prior commitments did not cause them to pass on the Olympics.

Don and Tom:  maybe they dont care about being recognized as the best...but to me, that seems to be outside of the competitive make-up of such a successful golfer/architect in Ben and a successful architect in Bill.

Like I said, all I know is what's in the article and what Tom has written...and candidly, it hasn't changed my opinion.  In fact, for all the hell that Rees Jones gets on here for being a "one trick pony", an argument can now  be made that C&C could be pegged with share the same moniker....after all, it's just architectural inflexibility in a different form.

Tom - while I believe you that your primary goal is not the betterment of your career but your ego, competitive sprit and personal satisfaction are certainly in play...which is part and parcel with your career and life's work as an architect.  If you ask me, that's a good thing and that's healthy.  Hell, it shows you care.

Whether C&C likes it or not, they are leaders in the architecture world.  I feel, and maybe others disagree (that's fine), that leaders should be interested and flexible enough to bid on and work on the biggest job in golf.  Just my opinion based on the little facts I have.

[Tom Yost]

Just doesn't make since to me.

Funny, makes all the sense in the world to me.

C&C pick their sites and are trusted to make the best decisions themselves.
The Olympic course is a fair to poor site working for a group that will meddle in those decisions.
I don't think Bill wants to spend days and days in meetings at this point in his career.

I'm with Ian on this one.  So much politics involved that would prevent them the freedom to do their best work.  I have to believe that nearly every aspect of the course design is going to be dictated by committee.

Carnac sees an island green in the olympic future.







 

[George Pazin]

This course would seem to be an ideal place to host Tom's fantasy architect's camp, if he wins...but I fear no one could pry me away from the beach.

Good luck, Tom, I hope you or Gil get it.

[Anthony Gray]

  Wil there be alot of looking over your shoulder with this project?

  Anthony

[JESII]

JR,

Why do you think this is the biggest job in golf?

I'd be curious how you see it playing out before, during and after the event?

Is it a good thing for the image/sustainability of golf that course needs to be created out of thin air for a single tournament?

[Anthony Gray]

  Just doesn't make since why a fim would not want a job like this. Why do all the others want it if its a bad job?

   Anthony
 

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