Par 4 of the Day - Weston Golf and CC #5 [Park Jr]

[Mark Saltzman]

-- Inspired by Prof. Bausch, The Par 4 of the Day

Johns Island West, Hole 15: Par 4, 276 Yards

On a golf course of very strong holes, this was one of my favorites.  What say you all?

The 15th is short par-4, playing well under 300 yards.  An imposing waste area and very deep bunker guard the left.  A single tree guards the right side of the green.  Players who choose to lay-up need not worry about the tree as it is nearly green high.

Tee View:





Tee shots that are laid-up are left with an approach that is played uphill to a green surface that is completely blind from the fairway.  The bunker on the left looks scary from here as well!




Tee shots that are too far to the right must deal with this one very well-placed tree.  Run it up, hit it over, or through -- tough choice.




A steep bank short of the green means shots must be flown onto the green.




A fairway cut chipping area to the right of the green leaves a very difficult recovery.




The deep greenside bunker:




The green has a massive tier separating the front and back portions.  The picture flattens the ridge, but it is several feet high.  I found out the hard way that landing a wedge into the slope will have it spin off the front of the green, down the bank and several yards into the fairway (a la Kyle Stanley minus the water).

Green from behind:




The green also expands at the back over the deep bunkering.  I am very glad I didn't have a back-left pin.

[Ronald Montesano]

How distant is the shortest carry over the lunar surface, errr, the waste bunker?

[Mark Saltzman]

How distant is the shortest carry over the lunar surface, errr, the waste bunker?

Picture is from the back tee so (obviously) all other carries would be shorter, but I would guess around 160 yards, maybe shorter.

[Anthony Gray]

Great hole. It would take several plays to figure it out. Short but not an easy 4.

 Antho

[Kalen Braley]

That hole reminds me a little bit of the short par 4 3rd at Thanksgiving Point which also plays 270-280ish.

It has a giant bunker that must be negotiated with both the tee shot and approach.  Here is pic from about 150 yards out.

[Howard Riefs]

Tee shots that are too far to the right must deal with this one very well-placed tree.  Run it up, hit it over, or through -- tough choice.

Mark,

Nice hole. How did you play this shot ... and to what success?

[Anthony Gray]

  Why so little posts? This is what this site is about.

 

[Kalen Braley]

  Why so little posts? This is what this site is about.

 

Anthony,

I wondered the same about my post I started a day or so ago..not even one response!!!    

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50971.0.html

[Jon Wiggett]

Good looking hole which shows how much strategy can be fitted into the short par 4 hole. The only puzzle for me is why the semi rough on the green's bankings between the chipping area and the green. Good topic for a thread.

Jon

[Colin Macqueen]

Jon,

I just assumed that the area of semi-rough fleshed out he range of aproach shots that might be encountered on this hole from bunker, run-up, chip or flop depending on where ones tee shot fetched up. A good hole that would vary each time I played it given the random nature of my ball-flight off the tee!

Cheers Colin

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

Nice hole. How did you play this shot ... and to what success?

Howard, I hit four 'perfect' shots on a 276 yard par 4 and just barely walked away with my par.

My depth perception was off from the tee.  I thought the tree was green high.  I don't hit it 276 uphill (unfortunately), but thought that maybe if I could play a little draw I could reach the front edge.  I hit it dead straight and as I got to my ball, only four-letter words filled my head.

You saw what I had left.  I took a quick walk up the the green, saw the the tier and figured if I could fly something into it, the ball would spin down next to the hole.  I had 50 yards left and played a really good spinny 56* under the highest limbs.  I figured it was perfect.

I went to take a picture of the bank short of the green.  Notice the ball on the right?  My ball hit the ridge in the green and spun all the way off the front.  Four letter words again.



I did manage to get up and down and saved par, but all of my 'adventures' are a big part of the reason why I think this is such a good short par-4.  Heck, I even had the 'easy' pin position!

[Kalen Braley]

So Mark,

If you had instead elected to play the hole 4 iron/wedge to the middle of the green for an easy/drama-free par are you saying the hole would be less than a good par 4? 

[Anthony Gray]

 The tree is ingenius. Makes the lay-up less than routine.

  Anthony

[Mark Saltzman]

So Mark,

If you had instead elected to play the hole 4 iron/wedge to the middle of the green for an easy/drama-free par are you saying the hole would be less than a good par 4? 

Kalen, not what I meant.   I like to think that I notice features that do not come into play for me when I see a hole only once, but I miss some. On one go-around I had to deal with several of the features that make the hole interesting so I definitely noticed them. I also think that actually dealing with the tree and considering the possible options is worth a lot more than just recognizing that it is in play for shots that are hit too far right.

As I write this I think I'm giving credence to Mr Mucci's oft asked, "but have you played the course?"

[Howard Riefs]

Howard, I hit four 'perfect' shots on a 276 yard par 4 and just barely walked away with my par.

My depth perception was off from the tee.  I thought the tree was green high.  I don't hit it 276 uphill (unfortunately), but thought that maybe if I could play a little draw I could reach the front edge.  I hit it dead straight and as I got to my ball, only four-letter words filled my head.

You saw what I had left.  I took a quick walk up the the green, saw the the tier and figured if I could fly something into it, the ball would spin down next to the hole.  I had 50 yards left and played a really good spinny 56* under the highest limbs.  I figured it was perfect.

I went to take a picture of the bank short of the green.  Notice the ball on the right?  My ball hit the ridge in the green and spun all the way off the front.  Four letter words again.

I did manage to get up and down and saved par, but all of my 'adventures' are a big part of the reason why I think this is such a good short par-4.  Heck, I even had the 'easy' pin position!

Mark -

Thanks for the details on how you played the shot.  Definitely a nice up and down for a par.

[Mark Saltzman]

Next up...

Old Town Club, Hole 7: Par 4, 419 Yards [Perry Maxwell]




The tee shot has an extremely open feeling, as the 7th fairway shares a fairway with the 16th. 




But, the golfer really wants to play his tee shot up the left side of the fairway, over the series of uniquely shaped bunkers.





The approach is best played from the left.  Not an easy task as the fairway slopes significantly from left-to-right:




Not only is the green extremely small given the difficulty of this uphill, into the wind approach on a fairly long hole, but it is also guarded by a couple of very deep bunkers and a significant false-front:




The green lays at a 45-degree angle to the fairway and slopes from left-to-right.  Not an easy task to find this green.  Not an easy task to two-putt once on the green.

Green from behind:




Green from left:

[Ed Oden]

Mark, of the par 4s at Old Town, why did you pick #7?

[Mark Saltzman]

Ed,

In my constantly jumbled mind, I keep wondering how the same hole is viewed by golfers of all different abilities. How is it possible that the best courses are thought to be great by almost all golfers -- golfers of varying handicaps?  Does a 20 handicap really think that Pine Valley or Oakmont is among the best courses in the country?

With that thought in mind, I've just started looking through some pictures to try to 'see' some of the golf courses I've played from the eyes of a higher handicap.  I am really struggling with it.  The same way I struggle to see a golf course as a long-hitter sees it (they do things I don't even consider).

I think 7 at OTC is a good example of a hole that plays differently for a high vs. low handicapper.  As such, with the varied handicaps on this board, I wanted to get an opinion of the hole...

[Matt MacIver]

As a high HC I'll chime in: looks like a fun hole! 

I'm a high HC because: 1) I spray it everywhere (can miss to either side); 2) crap chipping game.  I think a common misconception is that high 'cappers always lack length, which isn't the case. 

So re: OT #7 above I would certainly aim for left side fairway via either a straight ball or sling a running hook up there.  The outcome of pulling either shot off for me would be 25%, and my miss would be wide right, making the second shot very hard with only an aeral approch option to make the green.  The smart play would be to lay up short, chip on and make my five; but I guess playing smart is another weakness in my game (BORING!).  It's OT, I didn't come here to lay-up!

[Bruce Wellmon]

I haven't played Old Town in years. But, what I do remember on this hole was the left to right slope which was significant. Interesting you mentioned the prevailing wind on this tee shot. I don't think I cleared the bunkers off the tee as we had a breezy day. (Not good.) Old Town is such a special place. The contours, both fairway and greens, are such a factor.

[Mark Saltzman]

Next up...

Weston Golf and Country Club, Hole 5: Par 4, 424 Yards [Willie Park Jr.]




The most difficult hole at Weston.  The green is straightaway, down the hill in-line with the eye-sore apartment building.

A difficult tee shot.  Staggered bunkering flanks the DZ.  Tee shots too far right will be blocked-out by trees.  Tee shots on the left side of the fairway may be caught by the slope of the fairway and find the left fairway bunker.  The fairway runs out around 300 yards.


Tee view:




Fairway slopes right-to-left:




Left side of the fairway collects into the rough -- makes the tee shot very difficult for shorter hitters:




From 200 yards out, the approach to the green is completely blind:




From 175 the back bunkers come into view:




From 130 yards out the green is completely in view:




Like many of the greens at Weston, there is almost no internal contouring but there is significant back-to-front slope.  Putts from the back of the green are almost impossible to keep on the green in summer conditioning:




Green from back-right:




Green from behind:

[Peter Pallotta]

As always, thanks Mark.

I don't pine too much to play private courses, even famous and great ones. But Weston is one that I hope to play one day - Park, the history of it. And that is one heck of a good little hole. The little chip after laying up to a putting surface that can't be seen makes it for me.

Peter

[Tom_Doak]

That hole at Weston was very memorable for me, even twenty years after my one visit.  I thought when I saw it that I would have routed a similar hole.

But, who made the bunkers all jiggedy?  Was that really Willie Park's original style for Weston?

[Tyler Kearns]

Tom,

Ian Andrew did the bunker work at Weston, and I'm sure he'll comment on the choice of style for these bunkers.  It should be noted that the project is listed under renovation work, not restoration on his website.

TK

[JNC Lyon]

Mark,

Doesn't one of the holes at Weston play under a train trestle?