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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2012, 07:40:13 PM »
How short will 8R be?  Looks like it could be less than 100 yards.

I believe Tom has already said that was so on the holes less than 100 yards thread.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2012, 08:01:41 PM »
How short will 8R be?  Looks like it could be less than 100 yards.

I believe Tom has already said that was so on the holes less than 100 yards thread.


I looked and didn't see that, but am willing to be proven wrong through a quote or citation.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2012, 08:05:14 PM »
Is it too early to say that this will be the best 36-hole routing in recorded history?
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2012, 08:10:10 PM »
Is it too early to say that this will be the best 36-hole routing in recorded history?

Not at all Terry.....the attached drawing clearly indicates such!

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2012, 08:11:11 PM »
Terry, if this place does not change the future of golf in every way, I would be shocked.

Sam Morrow

Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2012, 08:12:12 PM »
Terry, if this place does not change the future of golf in every way, I would be shocked.

How so?

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2012, 08:14:58 PM »
Terry
- what is the competition for best 36 hole routing - worldwide?

Kalen
- how is it possible to espouse that this will be the best 36 routing from approx map on a satelitte image?
@theflatsticker

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2012, 08:16:03 PM »
You guys might be right...and wrong.

Is it 36 holes or 37?  See that little area just to the left of the clubhouse...it looks like a teeing area...going over water...to a small green.  If so, yes.  This will certianly re-define golf as we know it...and Streamsong will be the finest 37 hole complex (this side of Barnbougle).

 :)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2012, 08:23:07 PM »
Mac, Barnbougle has 38 holes.
@theflatsticker

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2012, 08:26:57 PM »
Well...those guys were right.  Streamsong, most likely, is the greatest 37 hole golf complex in the entire world!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2012, 08:43:00 PM »
Is it too early to say that this will be the best 36-hole routing in recorded history?

Now that's funny!
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2012, 08:48:49 PM »
Am I seeing this wrong? The transition from the 12th green to 13 tee on the blue course seems to cross the line of play of the 14th hole on the red course. Just curious.

I wondered about that too.
We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2012, 08:51:19 PM »
Will there be a bridge on Blue 7?  Or does one have to go around?

And has Mr. Doak ever designed an 18 with two cape holes before.  Looks like he may have here.

We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2012, 09:09:31 PM »
There's a footbridge across the lake on Blue #7, which you then go back across to get to #8 tee.  It's the longest hike on the course by far, but it's worth every step.  [They get in to mow the green from the back side, from Red #17 tees.]

The walk from Blue 12 to 13 goes around the back of Red 14 tee.  That walk is about as long as the one from 11 to 12 at Pacific Dunes, but you get a peek at one of the most dramatic views on the Red course for your trouble.  Crossovers like that are never easy to sort out, but we think it's okay.  People might be waiting to try and drive #13 Blue green, anyway, so hopefully the walk spaces them out a bit.

The lakes on the site are not like normal golf course ponds; they are 3-10 times the scale of what you normally see, and they've been naturalized over the years.  Not using them a bit would be like going to Bandon Dunes and not playing along the ocean ... but, we had eight players for most of Friday and there were no balls hit into the water at all.  Plus, there is a lot of elevation change going on, so the lakes never feel the same.  Just on the Blue course:

At #3, the tee is 15-20 feet above the lake, and the green is ten feet up.
At #7, the tee is 60-70 feet above the lake, and the green is backed by a dune that's 90 feet high.
At #13, the green is 20-25 feet above the lake.
At #14, the tee is 10-12 feet above the lake.

Mac:  the little hole you noticed is a nineteenth hole, which we will now label the "Thirty-seventh".  It will be lighted for night play so people can go out from the clubhouse and have a closest-to-the-pin contest after dinner.  The huge putting green that Bill just finished building will probably be another lively evening hang-out.

Keith O'Halloran:  That's a pretty outlandish statement.  In what way could we possibly change the future of golf?  I think we have a good chance of changing the golf landscape in Florida, and maybe the southeast, but I don't know how far I'd go past that.  Rio, though, would be a different story.

Anthony Gray

Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2012, 09:19:44 PM »
What did people report from the construction site?

  Anthony

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2012, 09:24:49 PM »
What did people report from the construction site?

  Anthony


That the map on this thread is inaccurate, and Kalen should keep his pants on.

For that matter, I'm sure the whole DG wants Kalen to keep his pants on.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2012, 09:36:08 PM »
Thanks TD for the summary.

Water, and not really in play sounds just right. exciting project.
(Rio- which everyway the bid goes, will routings etc stay confidential ?)
@theflatsticker

Josh Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2012, 12:13:48 AM »
Things to be thankful for......Great decisions made at Streamsong...

A) that the Ownership group decided to include GOLF in the resort. 

B) that they put both courses together in that LAND.  (there was talk of building one there and the other one elsewhere). 

C) that they interviewed a few architects before going forward.

D) that I wasn't eaten by an Croc/Alligator (whatever they were)

It is a bit of Sensory Overload to see all of that in a day and a half.  A lot to take in, seeing 37 brand new, unique, rumpled holes built on a seemingly endless profile of sand.  I remarked to Tom that building bunkers out of that sand and with the albeit highly invasive, endlessly beautiful knee high cogongrass is kind of like a dream scenario.  I think he agreed.


A few jumbled comments.

Great variety of holes, (great par threes, plenty of unique short fours, exciting par fives).  Great run up or run off contours all over.

Grassing :  Tees, Fairways, Approaches all same height.  Greens.  All else is sand or cogongrass.  (no maintained rough)

At different points out there, I saw the best of.... Royal Melbourne, Sand Hills, a Treeless Pine Valley, Lost Farm, St. Andrews Beach,

Pac Dunes, Bandon Trails, Friars Head and Old MacDonald to name a few.

Can't wait to play them both when it opens. 

Mike Sweeney

Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2012, 06:17:28 AM »


At different points out there, I saw the best of.... Royal Melbourne, Sand Hills, a Treeless Pine Valley, Lost Farm, St. Andrews Beach,

Pac Dunes, Bandon Trails, Friars Head and Old MacDonald to name a few.


When Kyle Harris showed me some pictures, I said it looked like a cross between Southampton and Nebraska. I did not want to say it here as it was just pictures. Coming from Josh Smith who had seen a TON of landscapes, that is really saying something.

Kyle Harris, don't forget me!!  ;)

Kris Shreiner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2012, 09:13:04 AM »
Tom,

I dunked one into a left-side pond on my third shot, having prior made a nice recovery shot to the fairway with the tee shot you found for me in the cogongrass. I remember saying to myself, "Nice shot jackass, way to blow a perfect recovery." The shot was putrid and deserved a watery grave.

None of the water features had the feeling of being forced or out of place to me. Appropriate use, plus adding challenge and interest was the take I came with.


To the gang,

Best 30 whatever... holes of all time...before they're even done? C'mon guys, let's keep the credibility meter on this site in a Northerly direction. Why not give the property a chance to present itself at least a little while before we starting annointing and pandering to that degree?

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 09:18:11 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2012, 09:41:43 AM »

Best 30 whatever... holes of all time...before they're even done? C'mon guys, let's keep the credibility meter on this site in a Northerly direction. Why not give the property a chance to present itself at least a little while before we starting annointing and pandering to that degree?

A tall order after Doak's design at Dismal was already awarded best routing of all time.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2012, 09:45:04 AM »
...

To the gang,

Best 30 whatever... holes of all time...before they're even done? C'mon guys, let's keep the credibility meter on this site in a Northerly direction. Why not give the property a chance to present itself at least a little while before we starting annointing and pandering to that degree?

Cheers,
Kris 8)

It seems a lot of you didn't catch that Terry's post was poking fun at Barney's (JK) thread on Dismal River 2 being the best routing of all time.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2012, 10:15:34 AM »
Tom,

What was the thought process behind two firms routing two courses on the same property at the same time?  It appears that the C&C course is mostly a large loop on the outside of the property, with your course winding around in the middle.

I’m curious as to how the process worked.  Did you start out saying:  “Ben/Bill – you get the outside and I’ll take the inside”?  Or did one group rout first and the other second?  Seems like a challenging process considering that neither firm has dealt with a situation like this before (to my knowledge).

I know your are close to Bill and Ben, but were there any moments when you said “I call that chuck of land!”, and they said “No, we want that piece!”, etc?

Seems like a fascinating process.
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2012, 10:56:53 AM »

I was planning on doing a drive-by quick look tomorrow morning on my way north.  Is there much that can be seen without trespassing?

Simon Holt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong routing
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2012, 11:05:45 AM »
Bryan,

No is the quick answer.  They are super cautious about safety, as you would expect of a mining company.  You wouldn't even realise it is there until you are on the property.

Simon
2011 highlights- Royal Aberdeen, Loch Lomond, Moray Old, NGLA (always a pleasure), Muirfield Village, Saucon Valley, watching the new holes coming along at The Renaissance Club.