[Mark Johnson]

Had an interesting discussion last week and wanted to get a GCA on this.   For now, I will leave my opinion out of it as to not bias anyone.   (since i know most of yall will instictively want to disagree with me.)


What are you thoughts on a starter mandating which set of tees a golfer players for the round?   Assume for the sake of argument that the golf course is fairly busy.   Also assume that there is a significant difference between the yardages and forced carries based on this.

E.g.   if you want to play the tips, you need to be sub-5,  and sub-12 to play the back tees.

Does your answer change based on whether the course is public or private?

[Kris Shreiner]

A key issue to pace-of-play and enjoyment of the golfing day by the largest majority of players! So long as the starter has tact and is friendly in his/her manner, there shouldn't be many issues. The tee sheet numbers also factor in, as a light day might allow for some discretion. Some players that can pipe it, but have mercurial games, have the length and enjoy the longer plays. As a general rule, however, a firm policy should be in place.

As to the public/private differences, if the players are members, play quickly and aren't holding play up, why couldn't or shouldn't they play from where they wish. That's part of what they pay a premium to enjoy. So long as they aren't carving up the tee boxes, is there a problem with playing longer distance holes?

Cheers,
Kris

[Mac Plumart]

I'm on-board with it.

Private club...owner, or board, dictates who tee off from where.

Public course...bring your handicap card and play the corresponding tees.

[Tim Gavrich]

I'm okay with setting guidelines for players to determine which tees are best to play from.  But what if you have a set of tees meant for, say, 6 hcp or lower and you have two 6s and two 7s who hit the ball approximately the same distance? Are you going to separate them or force the 6s to the shorter tees?  Don't we want to make the whole production of playing the game LESS stressful?

I will add, however, that pace of play should always be enforced.  Slow players will play slow even from the proper tees, though.

[Mark Johnson]

Looks like I am in the consensus on this one.

I encountered this a little bit on my last golf trip and think it is a great step in the right direction, not only to drive pace of play, but also to enhance the enjoyment of player's rounds.    I think where this becomes the biggest issue is on courses that have hosted PGA events and want to play where the pros play from.

prairie landing used to have starters enforce this during most peak times.    One of the high points of my golfing life was being forced to play from the middle tees on the first hole (a 330/300 yard par 4)  there as a 14 year old and then putting my drive on the fringe.   After that, the starter recommended that I hit another ball from the back tees.

I know the biggest pushback is going to be groups that all want to play the same tee.   My response is that everyone can move up to accomplish this instead of one player moving back.

[Lou_Duran]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!  ONLY ONE RULE.  PLAY FAST AND KEEP UP.  Actually two.  TAKE CARE OF THE GOLF COURSE WHILE DOING #1.

[Anthony Fowler]

I disagree wholeheartedly with any efforts (by starter or owner) to dictate the tees that a particular player should use.  If you're a paying member or daily fee customer, you should have the right to play whatever tees you want (including the possibility of mixing and matching on different holes) so long as you keep a reasonable pace-of-play.  

Similarly, I don't like it when courses don't put a set of tees on the back boxes presuming that none of their daily fee golfers are good enough to play from those.  If someone wants to play the tips and can keep up the pace, there is no reason they shouldn't have that right.  This could be especially frustrating if you want to experience the challenge of a Pinehurst, Kiawah, etc. from major championship tees (and you've traveled some distance to do it), and the course won't allow it.

Personally, I have had many golf experiences made worse because a course or host prevented me from playing the best tees.  For these reasons, I strongly prefer the Ballyneal model of no tee boxes.  Unfortunately, the card-and-pencil types (most golfers) want to be able to say that they shot a particular score from a particular set of tees.

[Tim Bert]

Private club...owner, or board, dictates who tee off from where.

No way do I agree with this approach. Play from where you'd like, keep things moving, and stay out of everyone's way.   By all means, know your ability and whether or not you can make forced carriers. But feel free to play a different tee every hole if that strikes your fancy. Do what's fun but do so in a manner that doesn't ruin the experience for others on the course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I would be very irritated if my club required me to play from a particular set of tees.  I can understand it on a public access course better, but when I visit a course for the first time, I tend to jump around to different tee boxes. 

[Wade Whitehead]

"We respectfully expect that you play at an appropriate pace."

Beyond that the starter really shouldn't be saying anything about how - or where - a player should play.

WW

[Mark Saltzman]

I disagree wholeheartedly with any efforts (by starter or owner) to dictate the tees that a particular player should use.  If you're a paying member or daily fee customer, you should have the right to play whatever tees you want (including the possibility of mixing and matching on different holes) so long as you keep a reasonable pace-of-play.  

Similarly, I don't like it when courses don't put a set of tees on the back boxes presuming that none of their daily fee golfers are good enough to play from those.  If someone wants to play the tips and can keep up the pace, there is no reason they shouldn't have that right.  This could be especially frustrating if you want to experience the challenge of a Pinehurst, Kiawah, etc. from major championship tees (and you've traveled some distance to do it), and the course won't allow it.

Anthony, I agree completely.  Well said.

Handicap alone should not dictate what tees someone plays.  Have a couple of marshalls with the authority to actually tell a group to move holes / change tee boxes.    If the group can't keep up, then you do something about it.

BTW, I played the gold tees at #2.  They weren't out, but I just picked a spot and played from there.  One marshall gave me shit, I said "I wasn't holding anyone up." My caddie confirmed I was 1-over after 5 holes and the marshall left me alone.

[Scott Stearns]

Whatever rule you want to have.  on hole #2 iam gonna play from whereever i want. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have never seen a starter tell someone where to play when there are options for guests.  I do find it gets old to watch average to poor players play the tips and turn a 4 to 4.5 hour round into a 5. I have had many ask us our handicaps and recommend a tee for the group.

[Bart Bradley]

When visiting a private club, they can dictate anything they want...otherwise, this is silly.  Noone cares about WHERE you play, they care HOW FAST you play.  This is another attempt to speed up play that does not get to the heart of the matter.  Why is everyone so hesitant to enforce speed of play requirements?  That is the crux of the issue.

Bart

[Joe_Tucholski]

Agree that when playing a private course as an unaccompanied guest the course can mandate where you play, otherwise I don't like the mandate.  That being said I like the suggestion from either the guys at the register or a starter.  I have a number of friends that play less than 5 times a year.  I would bet they play whatever tee the group in front of them plays because they don't know what each color means.  If it's the tips...I feel bad for the group behind them.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mark personally I'd say it is out of order using tees that are "no out" there could be all sorts of maintenance reasons for not using them. The caddie should have been kicked off the course with you.

[Scott Warren]

Indeed, Chappers.

I don't understand why any golfer - member, guest or visitor - on any course should feel entitled to ignore instructions from course staff and do as they please.

The irony of Mark Saltzman's post is that he advocates marshalls telling players which tees to play from, then - in his next breath - boasts about ignoring a marshall who did exactly that!

[Adrian_Stiff]

Whatever rule you want to have.  on hole #2 iam gonna play from whereever i want. 

I am quite shocked to read this. You must do as the starter mandates, if you ask to play off back tees and they say no there will be a reason, they might be doing maintenance and building up to a tournament, they might be sprayed with a chemical, there may be speed of play issues, but you absolutely do as your told. If we caught a member disobeying our rules they would be banned, if we caught a non member their club would be informed. We are probably stricter on this in the UK because our back tees are smaller but you should play golf under the club rules.

[Sean_A]

I don't have a problem with a starter/marshal enforcing the rule, but I don't want a starter dictating which tees to use.  In general, I think folks should be playing more forward than they do and in this regard the UK has it in spades of the US and this is one reason the game is faster.  Plus, and again this is generally speaking, visitors are well known to play golf at a slower pace than members so it does ease this problem by insisting on playing the daily tees - that is often club culture anyway so visitors aren't treated any different than members. That said, I am not bothered by non-tee specified tee rules.  I always have the choice not to revisit the course if I think its an issue which impedes on the enjoyment of the game.

Ciao

[Mark Johnson]

To provide some more context,   the places where I have seen this policy enforced generally have a few things in common

1)  Packed tee sheet

2)  Relatively high-end daily fee course  ($90+ green fees)

3) Tips and back tees are VERY long  (Tips usually 7400 and backs around 6900 +)

I agree that having active marshalls on the course is another key for successful pace of play.   However, they cant do it alone...   Once a group gets significantly behind and has other groups waiting on them, it is nearly impossible to get back to acceptable pace of play.    I think courses need to take proactive roles in stopping slow play before it occurs.

While I can accept that some players want to get certain experiences from certain courses, I think there is no reason a 25 handicap should be playing a 7500 yard setup.  Period.   I remember one time at Ross Bridge a group of 20+ handicaps wanted to play the 8100 yard setup on the 2nd tee time of the morning.   Thankfully the starter tactfully convinced them to move up 2 sets of tees (and allow us who were the 3rd time of the day the play first.)

I have never seen this done on a private club, where I would imagine a much tougher conversation, especially in an equity club.   I know we have some members of Medinah, Congressional and Quail Hollow (i think) on this board.    At your courses, would a foursome of 20 handicaps be allowed to play the  Tour tees during a packed Saturday morning.

[Ken Fry]

Whatever rule you want to have.  on hole #2 iam gonna play from whereever i want. 

I am quite shocked to read this. You must do as the starter mandates, if you ask to play off back tees and they say no there will be a reason, they might be doing maintenance and building up to a tournament, they might be sprayed with a chemical, there may be speed of play issues, but you absolutely do as your told. If we caught a member disobeying our rules they would be banned, if we caught a non member their club would be informed. We are probably stricter on this in the UK because our back tees are smaller but you should play golf under the club rules.

Adrian,

Welcome to the "entitlement" mentality here in the States.  "I paid my money, I'll do whatever I want."

Ken

[Mark Saltzman]

Indeed, Chappers.

I don't understand why any golfer - member, guest or visitor - on any course should feel entitled to ignore instructions from course staff and do as they please.

The irony of Mark Saltzman's post is that he advocates marshalls telling players which tees to play from, then - in his next breath - boasts about ignoring a marshall who did exactly that!

Scott,

I said Marshalls should move players when players/groups are slow. The Marshall wanted to move me just because I was playing a certain set of tees even though we were right up to the group ahead of us. If we were behind because of me, I agree, he should say something and have the authority to do something about it.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Unless the tips are closed and I mean closed as in unable to access, it won't make a difference. I've been to many resort courses where the starter will suggest or even mandate the tee on the first tee and then the bozos move to the tips "to see/play the whole course" because "I paid for it." I remember once in Tucson at LaPaloma,a difficult course from any tee, some guy who hadn't played in 3 months and claimed to be a 5 hcp moved to the tips. He didn't hit a fairway or green the entire day.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

You play the course as it has been set out for you. Do you go and dig your own hole position on a particular green because the greenkeeper hasn't placed it in the most testing spot? The tee markers have been set out at a particular spot for a reason. We should play the course that its green committee have decided is what we are playing today.

Do you remember the BUDA cup at Hoylake? I walked round with competitors, some of whom were very low handicap, some not. You certainly didn't play from the tips, but everyone played from the same tees. I heard no grumbles about not being able to play the real course, and I heard a lot of appreciation for the club and course.

[Philippe Binette]

In Scotland, it is pretty common...

well,  there are only 3 set of tees on most scottish courses I've seen. Stepping on the back tee is a privilege and only the starter can give it to you

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