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Anthony Gray

What makes TOC great?
« on: January 29, 2012, 04:06:11 PM »


  From an architectual standpoint. Take away the history.




 

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 11:21:04 PM »
I was just thinking about this very thing today and like a bolt of lightning it came to me...

width + large greens + angles

That is what makes The Old Course amazing.

Add in perfect golf turf...history...a town in love with the game...and you've got the all-time greatest course.

(Thanks, Mark!!)   ;)
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 03:57:06 AM »
Variety of challenge and playability for all levels.

Jon

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 04:24:50 AM »
It all boils down to the strategy and the green complexes.

Philippe Binette

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Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2012, 07:56:04 AM »
- Almost infinite variety
- Great contours
- Great soils which lead to firm ground
- Continuity, the mowing of the play area is continuous from the 1st tee to the 18th green. Might be the only one in the world like that

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 11:49:05 AM »
It's no secret that I prefer several Open Rota courses to The Old Course.  That being said, there is no better walk in golf, up that 18th fairway.  Regardless of play quality, everyone smiles on the 18th green.

Peter Pallotta

Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 12:10:41 PM »
As Colt noted in the late 1920s:

"I think that the Old Course is so unique that any attempts to graft on new ideas would never be a success. It has served its purpose for centuries by providing healthy exercise and enjoyment to vast numbers of people, and at the same time a test for Championship golf."

And so to borrow from you guys, the enjoyment it provides everyone while also testing the best might have to do with the unique combination of:

Great soils which lead to firm ground and perfect turf
Continuity: the continuous/standard mowing of the entire area of play
Width + large greens = angles
Contours, and a wide variety of same
Fascinating green complexes and the unusual and interesting undulations in the terrain
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 12:12:20 PM by PPallotta »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 12:26:19 PM »
Keeping it general is important, but lets not forget to mention that the greatness of the TOC is encaspulated in its great holes.  There are arguably half a dozen world class holes.  If asked to choose their favourite three holes many would come up with different answers. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield & Alnmouth,

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 04:46:35 PM »
A good example of the brilliance of TOC is the scenario of a scratch player and a 18 handicap player taking on the last two holes playing into a stiff breeze. The scratch player has a much harder task on the 17th as he is now hitting a longer club into the green where distance control is everything. The normally difficult par is now so much harder.

The 18 handicapper doesn't usually hit the green in two so the hole is not made that much harder due to the wind.

18, with the pin just beyond the Valley of Sin leaves the scratch man who is unable to reach the green due to the headwind needing to get the tricky approach shot spot on. A fraction too short and its a tricky two putt from the Valley of Sin. Too long and he has a tricky downhill putt where both long and short can lead to a three putt. This short wide hole is going to prove quite a challenge for him

The 18 handicapper just needs to get to the green in two and then three putt to play his handicap. Again the hole is still more than playable for him.

Just another example of TOC greatness.

Jon

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 08:16:12 PM »
18, with the pin just beyond the Valley of Sin leaves the scratch man who is unable to reach the green due to the headwind needing to get the tricky approach shot spot on. A fraction too short and its a tricky two putt from the Valley of Sin. Too long and he has a tricky downhill putt where both long and short can lead to a three putt. This short wide hole is going to prove quite a challenge for him

The 18 handicapper just needs to get to the green in two and then three putt to play his handicap. Again the hole is still more than playable for him.

Just another example of TOC greatness.

Very well said - some think its a nothing hole (usually those who've only seen it a few times), but in my view they're missing a lot. I'd add that for the scratch player, they feel like they're leaving a shot out there if they don't make 3, adding to the pressure on the second shot. I can't argue that its a great hole, but it isn't devoid of strategy as its detractors claim.

Yannick Pilon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 06:34:25 AM »
The fact that the course starts and finishes directly in the village is, to me, an architectural "decision", if ever there was one, that makes a big difference in how you react to the golf course and address it as you start and end you round. 

It really messes up with your mind when you have an audience on the first tee and the last green, as hundreds of tourists, camera in hand, descend from buses and line up along that fence.

Not convinced?  Could you imagine if they had built the new clubhouse closer to the second tee so that golfers could start from there.  Would the experience be the same?  No way!!

YP
www.yannickpilongolf.com - Golf Course Architecture, Quebec, Canada

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 07:00:18 AM »
Great green complexes encompassing ground movement and bunkering, blind hazards, centreline bunkers, great width, firm turf, manageable length, elastic enough to cope with a variety of wind directions and strengths. A test for the pro and manageable for the hack, with a dose of quirk thrown in. Corrugated sand-based fairways close to the shore. No clearly defined path to the hole. First tee to home hole is a true 'journey'. TOC is glorious and brilliant.
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What makes TOC great?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 07:19:40 AM »
One reason is that even if you assume strategy is over rated TOC still provides infinite interest as the green sites are the real party piece. (Or at least whatever level of importance you assign strategy from the spectrum of views available in threads like this one http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,50627.0.html )  From the simplest fact that being on a huge green with a 50 yard putt is unique to more quirky shots like chipping onto number seven.  And of course all the other more subtle shots you are left with.

With greens like TOC you could play to them from fairways with features of no more interest than a soccer field and still have great fun.

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