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Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #125 on: May 28, 2020, 03:57:37 PM »

Ben, Niall,


to me the problem that both the WHO and UN have is they are no longer fulfilling their original function. If they still were a place where the worlds countries sat down together and worked out a line of how to approach a particular problem. Now however both are more like separate political bodies.


Jon

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #126 on: May 28, 2020, 04:06:48 PM »

Ben, Niall,

to me the problem that both the WHO and UN have is they are no longer fulfilling their original function. If they still were a place where the worlds countries sat down together and worked out a line of how to approach a particular problem. Now however both are more like separate political bodies.

Jon


Jon,


I'm guessing they still have a place available for the world leaders to sit down and will facilitate to work out a solution.  But its a handful of world leaders from the bigger countries who either refuse to come to the table or have their own agenda or refuse to work with others..and it fractures quickly...

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2020, 04:10:39 PM »

Kalen,


and yet despite that both organisations still manage to come out with guidance. If world leaders can not come to an agreement than there shouldn't be any policy ergo they are self determining!!!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2020, 04:24:38 PM »
Kalen,

and yet despite that both organisations still manage to come out with guidance. If world leaders can not come to an agreement than there shouldn't be any policy ergo they are self determining!!!


I'd like to think that prudent guidance based in science and rational thought process is far better than doing nothing at all....

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2020, 04:26:59 PM »

Kalen,

What the hell are you whining about. Either go out or stay home. You live in a country where you have the freedom to choose.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2020, 03:14:05 AM »
Ben's last post veered too close to party politics.  Safe to say I (and I suspect others here) don't agree with much of it. 
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2020, 05:07:43 AM »
Woah this escalated quickly the last day or so.  I'll defend Fauci and believe his advice is based in science and not biased towards the senior population now anymore than it was for the young when he first started in the early 80's. He gives advice and politicians make decisions.  He has medical advice, not economic or otherwise and this decision is complex with many layers and affected stakeholders.


So you can't, nor do you want to listen to one stakeholder when there are many more than that. However, not all stakeholders are equal as there are priorities. Think of it as the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, we need to be alive before we need money, we need to be healthy and not in the hospital before we need a job, etc. It is more nuanced and complex, but this is the crux of being a politician is that you have to prioritize and make judgements. Often times these judgements are made in alignment of a political agenda and thus, it makes decisions somewhat predictable. In that you think perhaps a Democrat will make decision A whereas a Republican will make decision B.


In a public health crisis/pandemic the idea that all people agree on the priorities is galvanizing, such as when this first started in the USA for example.  Everyone was shocked/scared/fearful and rightly so, of the effects of the virus and agreed by and large to whatever restrictions were placed. Over a longer period of time people started to think this will have an affect on me and my family, so they are more willing to take risks for they didn't want to lose their jobs/business/income. This has been the balancing act that is proving difficult everywhere around the world and why so many people have a polarizing view on what should be done.

Although much is reported negatively in the media, I focus on the positive stories reported of neighbors, co workers, relatives, or strangers doing extremely empathetic and selfless actions that are inspiring. It shows that regardless of what politician is in office we are compelled to help others when others are in need, as the realization is that someday (maybe even now) we are that someone in need.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2020, 06:57:33 AM »
I'm 60 and at one point around 7pm I got up with two tasks to complete. I finished the first and got distracted by something on television. I could not for the life of me remember my second task so I went back to my chair and relaxed. Fast forward to this morning. Walking past the washer/dryer it occurred to me that I was supposed to take the sheets out of the washer and put them in the dryer. No harm done, it's what old people do.


At least having really old people telling us what to do is a bipartisan effort.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #133 on: May 29, 2020, 07:02:19 AM »
I do wish Elon Musk lived in The Villages and drove his golf cart back and forth from Cape Canaveral. He could have named his son Bob and taken a nap between securing the astronauts and launch.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #134 on: May 29, 2020, 07:19:46 AM »
I am now up to five for “posts drafted and then deleted before publishing” in this thread.


I just might have learned some discipline in my old age after all!

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #135 on: May 29, 2020, 08:35:54 AM »
Woah this escalated quickly the last day or so.  I'll defend Fauci and believe his advice is based in science and not biased towards the senior population now anymore than it was for the young when he first started in the early 80's. He gives advice and politicians make decisions.  He has medical advice, not economic or otherwise and this decision is complex with many layers and affected stakeholders.


So you can't, nor do you want to listen to one stakeholder when there are many more than that. However, not all stakeholders are equal as there are priorities. Think of it as the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, we need to be alive before we need money, we need to be healthy and not in the hospital before we need a job, etc. It is more nuanced and complex, but this is the crux of being a politician is that you have to prioritize and make judgements. Often times these judgements are made in alignment of a political agenda and thus, it makes decisions somewhat predictable. In that you think perhaps a Democrat will make decision A whereas a Republican will make decision B.


In a public health crisis/pandemic the idea that all people agree on the priorities is galvanizing, such as when this first started in the USA for example.  Everyone was shocked/scared/fearful and rightly so, of the effects of the virus and agreed by and large to whatever restrictions were placed. Over a longer period of time people started to think this will have an affect on me and my family, so they are more willing to take risks for they didn't want to lose their jobs/business/income. This has been the balancing act that is proving difficult everywhere around the world and why so many people have a polarizing view on what should be done.

Although much is reported negatively in the media, I focus on the positive stories reported of neighbors, co workers, relatives, or strangers doing extremely empathetic and selfless actions that are inspiring. It shows that regardless of what politician is in office we are compelled to help others when others are in need, as the realization is that someday (maybe even now) we are that someone in need.


Thanks for explaining everything. ;)

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #136 on: May 29, 2020, 12:19:23 PM »
What Jeff and others have not already explained or resolved, the reference article below covers the rest.


https://www.realclearscience.com/quick_and_clear_science/2018/07/05/65_of_americans_think_they_are_more_intelligent_than_average.html


I have known quite a few partisans on both sides, some at each of the far ends of the curve.  With few exceptions they believe that their POV is rational, well-informed, free of undue bias, center-left or right, and motivated by the highest virtues.   Much too often they attribute the darkest motives or, in kindness, ignorance to those with a much different POV.


I don't have a lot of respect for Peggy Noonan's insights as a rule (I don't think she is very smart  ;) ), but proving the adage that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn on occasion, she writes in the WSJ over the weekend what I consider to be a fundamental principle: "Great leaders work with human nature, not against it".  We have a number of cultural and demographic characteristics in America that are different than those of many other countries.  That also holds true to some extent between the states.  Hopefully whoever wins in November will possess Ms. Noonan's insight and rule accordingly. 




Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2020, 07:39:20 PM »
Great leaders unify their constituents, not split them into two groups savaging each other.

But being a great leader isn't enough. Hitler was a great leader by most definitions, as he managed to get the country solidly behind him. He also went with human nature, although some of the darker parts of it. So the most important ingredient of getting through a crisis is not the ability to lead, but the ability to know where to go. And knowing where to go is often a part where scientists can help tremendously. Even if they happen to be notoriously bad leaders.
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2020, 07:44:23 PM »
And there we have it. Godwin’s law occurs at post 137. Those with the under 150 are winners.  ;D

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #139 on: June 01, 2020, 01:17:57 AM »
Great leaders unify their constituents, not split them into two groups savaging each other.

But being a great leader isn't enough. Hitler was a great leader by most definitions, as he managed to get the country solidly behind him. He also went with human nature, although some of the darker parts of it. So the most important ingredient of getting through a crisis is not the ability to lead, but the ability to know where to go. And knowing where to go is often a part where scientists can help tremendously. Even if they happen to be notoriously bad leaders.

Ulrich do you really believe that statement?  :-[
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #140 on: June 01, 2020, 03:46:46 AM »
Great leaders unify their constituents, not split them into two groups savaging each other.

But being a great leader isn't enough. Hitler was a great leader by most definitions, as he managed to get the country solidly behind him. He also went with human nature, although some of the darker parts of it. So the most important ingredient of getting through a crisis is not the ability to lead, but the ability to know where to go. And knowing where to go is often a part where scientists can help tremendously. Even if they happen to be notoriously bad leaders.


Agree


Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #141 on: June 01, 2020, 08:23:41 AM »
Great leaders unify their constituents, not split them into two groups savaging each other.

But being a great leader isn't enough. Hitler was a great leader by most definitions, as he managed to get the country solidly behind him. He also went with human nature, although some of the darker parts of it. So the most important ingredient of getting through a crisis is not the ability to lead, but the ability to know where to go. And knowing where to go is often a part where scientists can help tremendously. Even if they happen to be notoriously bad leaders.

Knowing where to go? That is an extremely loaded proposition. Lots of leaders may know where to go, that doesn't mean its the best way to go.

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 07:28:29 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #142 on: June 01, 2020, 05:30:48 PM »
Sean, that's exactly what I said. It's not enough to be a great leader, because you could lead your constituents down the wrong path. In many cases it's hard to agree what the wrong or right path is, which is why I chose a hopefully universally accepted example for a wrong path.

I am not a fan of overemphasizing leadership skills, because we have seen time and again that this doesn't guarantee that any good will come out of it. When I read job postings that ask for strong leadership skills, then I often get the impression that they have failed to implement their policies within the company and are now looking for someone else to do it for them. How about getting things right first and then look for someone, who can sell it?
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #144 on: June 11, 2020, 04:41:35 PM »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #145 on: June 11, 2020, 06:56:44 PM »
Here are the current 14-day quarantine regulations for entering Scotland:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-public-health-checks-at-borders/pages/self-isolation/

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 14 Day Quarantine Upon Entering The UK
« Reply #146 on: June 12, 2020, 12:48:14 AM »
I'm sure the locals are thrilled about this!  ;D


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/president-trump-s-scottish-golf-resorts-set-get-over-1-n1229746


Kalen


What caught my attention and was surprising was this from the article:

Neither Trump International nor Trump Turnberry have made a profit in the last five years, according to public records at Companies House, a government body that registers company information.



Neither Trump International nor Trump Turnberry have made a profit in the last five years, according to public records at Companies House, a government body that registers company information.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine