Charleston SC. Top Three?

[Paul Carey]

From what I can tell Charleston SC has three architecturally significant (i.e. want to play every day) golf courses.  Those being Yeaman's Hall, Country Club of Charleston and Bulls Bay.  I am guessing the consensus is Yeaman's number one with the other two second depending on your preferences.  

My question is how would you rank the three and are there any others close to Charleston worth considering in the same discussion with those three?

p.s.  I have not played any of them so I don't have a first hand opinion.

Thanks!

[Mac Plumart]

Does Kiawah Ocean count as part of Charleston for you?  If so, it needs to be in the mix...I'd think.

[Paul Carey]

I was thinking of places for someone living in Charleston.  The Ocean course certainly would be in the mix with those other three but I was not thinking of quite that far from town.

[Mac Plumart]

Got it.

Yeamans is certainly a treat.  I haven't played the others, but I've heard good things.

[Mike Tanner]

I've not played the three town courses, but agree with Mac that Kiawah's Ocean Course should be in the mix. I'd also consider the Links Course at Wild Dunes because of its significance in the careers of Tom Fazio and Mike Strantz.
  

[PCCraig]

Charleston would be a very nice place to live if you're a golfer.

Assuming (big assumption) you're moving to Charleston and looking for places to join. YH and CC of Charleston are certainly the best two options close to downtown, but they are reportedly very hard places to join...especially if you're not from Charleston. Depending on how often you play, it might be worth looking into Briar's Creek on John's Island. The course was at one point a few years ago rated in the Top 100 courses in America by GD and Golf Mag, gets little play and is a fun low country course, & has great amenities. It would be maybe 30 min away from the heart of downtown, but I know they have a fair amount of local and Charleston area members.

It's also hard to beat having Kiawah 35-40 min away, as well as Hilton Head, Beaufort, Savannah within a half day's drive....and terrific weather 11 months out of the year.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I don't think you could go wrong at YH, Briar's Creek or Bull's Bay.
They are all excellent. Distinctive in their own way.
I have not played CCC, but have played the other 3. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Charleston is a nice place period.

[Bart Bradley]

Paul:

I have played all three.  For me, Yeaman's is clearly the best.  The back nine at CCC has some very nice holes and Bull's Bay is a very nice, less wild Strantz.  CCC and Bull's Bay are much different in style and from different eras.  Kiawah Ocean is outstanding and right up there with Yeaman's.  I like Wild Dunes Links but not as much as any of these others.

Bart

[JNC Lyon]

Play Yeamans three times and love life.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

I was thinking of places for someone living in Charleston.  The Ocean course certainly would be in the mix with those other three but I was not thinking of quite that far from town.

As the crow flies, The Ocean Course is closer to Charleston than Bull's Bay.  However, The Ocean Course is close to an hour drive vs. 35 minute drive for Bull's Bay...

[PCCraig]

I was thinking of places for someone living in Charleston.  The Ocean course certainly would be in the mix with those other three but I was not thinking of quite that far from town.

As the crow flies, The Ocean Course is closer to Charleston than Bull's Bay.  However, The Ocean Course is close to an hour drive vs. 35 minute drive for Bull's Bay...

Mike,

How long is the drive from the front gate back to the Ocean Course, ~20 min?

[Bruce Wellmon]

I don't think you could go wrong at YH, Briar's Creek or Bull's Bay.
They are all excellent. Distinctive in their own way.
I have not played CCC, but have played the other 3. 

If we expanding the commute time from Charleston proper then, by all means, TOC needs to be included.
Mike, Is it conceivable or inconceivable to travel by boat?

[Tim Gavrich]

I could play Bulls Bay every day and be very happy.  I'm sure I'd say the same of YH and CCC after playing them, from the pictures I've seen and the prose I've read.

How do the courses at Daniel's Island fare against their architectural counterparts in the area?  That is to say, How does the Fazio at DI compare to Wild Dunes--Links (not to mention Kiawah--River) and how does the Rees Jones at DI compare to Briar's Creek?

[Bart Bradley]

Tim:

Obviously just my opinion, but I think the Links at Wild Dunes has a more interesting set of holes than the Daniel Island Fazio.   The Daniel Island Fazio does have a pretty nice set of par 5s however. 

Sorry can't help with the Rees Jones questions.

Bart

[Mike_Trenham]

I played Cassique recently and thought it was great maybe best in the area but I have not played River or CCC and it was 20 years since I got to play Yeamens Hall.  Far better than Ocean or Bulls Bay and they are pretty nice.

[PCCraig]

I played Cassique recently and thought it was great maybe best in the area but I have not played River or CCC and it was 20 years since I got to play Yeamens Hall.  Far better than Ocean or Bulls Bay and they are pretty nice.

Mike,

You liked Cassique better than the Ocean Course? Would be curious to hear more of your thoughts regarding Cassique and your favorite holes.

[Mike_Trenham]

Yes I did,

#1 a friendly handshake which I like, angled green with some slope
#2 a par 5 with a second shot decision beyond go for it or not but that is an option too
#3 blind drive and blind second shot bold choice by TW
#4-#6 liked the flexibility and thought it was a pretty creative routing idea
#6 liked the blind 3rd shot to the green in a bowl on this par 5
#7-8 good holes but the oak trees may intrude too much
#9 many don't like the false front on this green but I do
#10 felt like #3 at  Yale which I really like
#11 a double palteau green
#12 a nice dog leg that is not over the top
#14 plays out towards the intercostal and the green fits so naturally on the ground
#15 a good modern par 5 that reminds me of something Dye would have built
#18 some think this hole is too much but I made a solid par so I liked it

The Ocean Course seems to have changed so much from 1991 when I witnessed the Ryder Cup there, the fairways all seem to contain vs. shed the balls.

[Joel Zuckerman]

My 2nd book was on this subject exactly:

http://www.vagabondgolfer.com/golf_charms_of_charleston.htm

I think Yeamans is the best everyday GC.  CCC is the only course I've only played once in the area as opposed to multiple times, so my opinion is a little fuzzier, but I recall it lacks the inherent topography change that makes YH so cool.  Bulls Bay, by contrast, has all the topo that is lacking at CCC, and much, much more.

TOC is the only GC in town that you would call epic, though I am a huge fan of Cassique, which is probably 20, even 25 minutes closer to Charleston than TOC.  Briars Creek is a nice retreat, but other than 9 & 18, a little formulaic IMO.

[John Shimp]

Not trying to turn this into a Fazio bash but wanted to note how surprisingly unregarded his area courses are.  Wild Dunes links was a big deal in its day a high top 100 if i recall. Now no one on this site or in town Chasn talks about it.  How about kiawah River?  They have had him rework it yet it doesnt get a mention while cassique and ocean are heavily discussed.  I live in charlotte; when River initially opened there was a fair amount of interest in it among people i know. Now there isnt.   His lesser works in the area like osprey point, daniel island, and wild dunes harbor arent mentioned at all.  Developers in chasn have gone to Fazio a lot without much acclaim it appears as none of his product can crack the top 5.  

To move to a genefalization at least for Chasn, although i believe it extends beyond,  something about Fazio's courses dont seem to wear well and i dont know what that is.  There are plenty of examples that have stood the test (victoria, shadow creek, wade hampton) but it feels like there are many more that splash on the scene and then become less discussed as distinctive?

To answer the question asked, yhc and ocean are the top 2.  None of the others are close to as good in my view.  50 years from now those two will still be great unless ocean washes into the ocean .  Cc of c would be 3 for me but not by a wide margin over some others.  Its not a real challenging course but it is fast and fun to play.  Yeamans greens beat any other course's in the area by a mile.  It is a superb course in my view.

[Bill Gayne]

I liked the River Course more than Cassique. I thought both courses were outstanding and would consider playing either one a treat. The lower profile of the River Course (as opposed to the dunes that were created at Cassique) fit the surrounding marsh land and transition to dry land better.

[Sean_A]

I don't know the top 3, but TOC, Yeamans Hall and Bulls Bay can't be a bad shout.  For me, its a no brainer that TOC is the top dog.  Its a great course, in a great setting and with a lovely house.  I can't say YHC or Bulls Bay are great courses.  That said, if I were to pick a course to play a few  times a month over the course (be a member of) of the year it would be YHC.  Its closer to town.  A better walk with opportunities to play al sorts of hole combos if 18 isn't in the cards and I like the vibe.  The only thing is I would try to jam all those rounds into the non-summer months.  I can't imagine the nasty bugs about there that time of year.  I like Bulls Bay quite a bit, but I consider it cart golf as the walk isn't so good and that would quickly grate on me. 

Ciao

[Paul Carey]

Thanks for all the replies.  They are very helpful as I am thinking of making the move there.   I am not sure any of these places will have me as a member.....so you might be seeing me at the muni!

[Paul Carey]

I just joined Bulls Bay.  I think the golf course is a lot of fun and the membership and setting is more my style.

[Mac Plumart]

Congrats!!

I generally get out that way at least once a year.  I look forward to being hosted at Bulls Bay for repayment for my contributions to this thread and, therefore, your membership.