Great, cheap and empty.

[John Kavanaugh]

Dan,

Carol Burnett is attractive but asexual.  I was amazed at how the movie allowed the actress to age.  She never looked as good as she did in the roaring 20's dress when she first met the lead.

I did a little research into the Sistine Chapel this afternoon.  I have always been curious to the exact nature of why some Pope had to have all those penii covered up.  You might be interested in this link.  

http://www.cracked.com/article_18386_7-mind-blowing-easter-eggs-hidden-in-famous-works-art.html

[Scott Stearns]

There are a numer of these.  Muirfield, ANGC and any number of old clubs with no debt are great, cheap (on both dues and inititation) and empty.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

How much are the dues at ANGC and Muirfield and how much is the initiation?

[Mark Bourgeois]

John,

In the days of Mrs Fabes, boy was The Addington great (assuming you didn't care too much about conditioning), cheap and empty.

You could add "convenient," too: a 30min train ride from central London.

Impossible to get a game there; especially if you were not playing at the weekend bring it with you or play alone.

And when I write "alone" I mean I probably saw 3x-4x dog walkers as 2-ball matches.

This would have been a challenging club for you and me in one way, tho: we couldn't have supported the pro no matter how hard we tried. No pro and no pro shop,

[Chris Johnston]

Great + Cheap + Empty = Closed

Empty = Closed.

Cheap and Busy = Check

Great and Cheap = Check

Only a few exceptions and those get bazilions from big events or owners, or offseason play.

[Sean_A]

I guess I have different ideas about great and cheap.  I am talking less than $40 (and thats a stretch for cheap) to walk up with no questions asked and play; great being in the mix for top 100 world.

Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

I guess I have different ideas about great and cheap.  I am talking less than $40 (and thats a stretch for cheap) to walk up with no questions asked and play; great being in the mix for top 100 world.

Ciao

Sean,

I played 54 holes at Wine Valley last March for a grand total of $85.  That works out to less than $30 per round.  The course is pretty much a consensus 7-8 on the Doak Scale.

Does this count?   

[Jud_T]

I guess I have different ideas about great and cheap.  I am talking less than $40 (and thats a stretch for cheap) to walk up with no questions asked and play; great being in the mix for top 100 world.

Ciao

Sean,

What serious top 100 contender has a rack rate below $40?  Askernish at 50 quid might be in the discussion..

[Jim Colton]

Is it possible for a course to have all three attributes?  I am afraid many empty, cheap courses are not as great as we tout them to be.  Are there any examples?

Ballyneal will likely qualify for all three in 2012, depending on your definition of cheap.

EDIT: I don't know how empty Kingsley Club is, but I think it definitely hits the first two, from a private perspective.

[Adam Clayman]

Can someone explain why everyone thinks empty is a good thing?  I don't want to play a club where getting on is difficult, or the number of people slows things down but golf is a social sport and I like the feel of being one of many out on course and the buzz of a reasonably full bar afterwards.

Mark, I remember the first time I ever played a course that I thought was great, and we were the only 4some around. That feeling of "Owning the place" was palpable. At that time, the cost was not cheap. It was around $53.00. It was outside of Chicago at Dubs Dread Cog Hill#4. Urbanites might be more inclined to appreciate this feeling, because it's out doors. In a city, outdoors usually means never really being alone. I've felt that feeling a lot more recently, since I now live about as rural as it gets. It's not as strong, or as palpable, because it's so often, but, on occasion, I'll stop and smell the roses. appreciating nature's magnificence and recalling that first time, on or about, the third green, at Dubs.
  

[Sean_A]

I guess I have different ideas about great and cheap.  I am talking less than $40 (and thats a stretch for cheap) to walk up with no questions asked and play; great being in the mix for top 100 world.

Ciao

Sean,

I played 54 holes at Wine Valley last March for a grand total of $85.  That works out to less than $30 per round.  The course is pretty much a consensus 7-8 on the Doak Scale.

Does this count?   

Kalen

I don't know about you, I can only speak for myself when considering what is great and cheap.  I set my bar at $40 and that is probably too high when I consider trying to get occasional golfers to have round - many would not want to pay $40 nor would they care about the quality of the course.  In truth, its more like a $30 threshold in the US. 


Jud

Thats my point.  I wonder if such a thing as great and cheap exist.  It shouldn't be such a surprise if it doesn't.  In most areas of life greatness costs something relatively substantial.  Though I must admit that Lawsonia looks to have a shot.  It strikes me as something somewhat similar (perhaps slightly wilder) to Yeamans and while I don't think that is great, many people do and I think it is not far off.   

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

How much is a round at Ballyneal?

To me the question clearly means you cant have GREAT, CHEAP and EMPTY.  Only a few have understood this thread, any course that is GREAT and EMPTY  can only survive if it is EXPENSIVE
The word EMPTY means not many are playing it, so it can only be because of VERY POOR or location or price.
CHEAP to me would be more around Seans thinking certainly sub $50 is cheap although many UKerrs baulk at the equivilant of over $40.
EMPTY + TIME = THE END

[John Kavanaugh]

Is it possible for a course to have all three attributes?  I am afraid many empty, cheap courses are not as great as we tout them to be.  Are there any examples?

Ballyneal will likely qualify for all three in 2012, depending on your definition of cheap.

There is no reason for Ballyneal to be empty in 2012 if you can get affordable pricing out there before May 1st.  I'd like to find somewhere to spend my tax refund.

[John Kavanaugh]

How much is a round at Ballyneal?

To me the question clearly means you cant have GREAT, CHEAP and EMPTY.  Only a few have understood this thread, any course that is GREAT and EMPTY  can only survive if it is EXPENSIVE
The word EMPTY means not many are playing it, so it can only be because of VERY POOR or location or price.
CHEAP to me would be more around Seans thinking certainly sub $50 is cheap although many UKerrs baulk at the equivilant of over $40.
EMPTY + TIME = THE END

Adrian,

Ballyneal is a private course.  They do not charge members for golf.  If Ballyneal charged me $xxxx per year to be a member and I only visited three times it would be cheap.  Even if they would double their current play it would still feel empty.  It's possible.

[Adrian_Stiff]

John - If Ballyneal is more than $50 for a round of golfthen its not cheap. It might be great value at $500 and it might be cheap to some at $500 but thats not the point of the question or if it is then the question has no point.

[John Kavanaugh]

John - If Ballyneal is more than $50 for a round of golfthen its not cheap. It might be great value at $500 and it might be cheap to some at $500 but thats not the point of the question or if it is then the question has no point.

I hope you are not saying that for Ballyneal to be cheap they would have to price their national memberships under $200/year.  That is nonsense.

I like to put things in perspective.  If you can join a national club for less than I pay a man to shovel asphalt for a week then that membership is cheap.  Find your own analogy...like how much you spend a year on feeding your dog.

[Adrian_Stiff]

How much is an annual membership at Ballyneal?

[Jim Colton]

How much is a round at Ballyneal?

To me the question clearly means you cant have GREAT, CHEAP and EMPTY.  Only a few have understood this thread, any course that is GREAT and EMPTY  can only survive if it is EXPENSIVE
The word EMPTY means not many are playing it, so it can only be because of VERY POOR or location or price.
CHEAP to me would be more around Seans thinking certainly sub $50 is cheap although many UKerrs baulk at the equivilant of over $40.
EMPTY + TIME = THE END

Adrian,

  I understood the thread perfectly. As I mentioned clearly, it all depends on your value of cheap.

[John Kavanaugh]

How much is an annual membership at Ballyneal?

Adrian,

Here is a link to their membership request form, give them a call or fill it out.  Private clubs have the right to decline membership to certain people no matter how great a value they may be, something I am quite familiar with. 

http://www.ballyneal.com/site/interest_list_form

[Michael George]

Just my opinion, but it is getting very tired when a discussion is brought up in the group re: a "troubled" club and Ballyneal is the sole reference.  Now that the information has come out about the family issues in the club, it appears pretty clear the direction that the club is heading.  Will their membership pricing change, yes, but what national club's model has not changed.  I really don't want this post to be the start of further discussion on Ballyneal and really, really hope people stop making conjectures about things related to the club.  Just is getting very tiresome.  Again, just my opinion.

[John Kavanaugh]

Just my opinion, but it is getting very tired when a discussion is brought up in the group re: a "troubled" club and Ballyneal is the sole reference.  Now that the information has come out about the family issues in the club, it appears pretty clear the direction that the club is heading.  Will their membership pricing change, yes, but what national club's model has not changed.  I really don't want this post to be the start of further discussion on Ballyneal and really, really hope people stop making conjectures about things related to the club.  Just is getting very tiresome.  Again, just my opinion.

Michael,

Jim is what I consider a founding member and has now mentioned twice that we should be able to acquire affordable memberships in 2012.  I think that is great, some people might see it as promotion. 

If a member of a club wishes to promote affordable memberships I am in no position to protest.  JC Jones even became a member this year at a different club because of a similar thread.  The last thing Ballyneal needs now is to be forgotten.

[Adrian_Stiff]

How much is a round at Ballyneal?

To me the question clearly means you cant have GREAT, CHEAP and EMPTY.  Only a few have understood this thread, any course that is GREAT and EMPTY  can only survive if it is EXPENSIVE
The word EMPTY means not many are playing it, so it can only be because of VERY POOR or location or price.
CHEAP to me would be more around Seans thinking certainly sub $50 is cheap although many UKerrs baulk at the equivilant of over $40.
EMPTY + TIME = THE END

Adrian,

  I understood the thread perfectly. As I mentioned clearly, it all depends on your value of cheap.

It depends on your value of cheap as you mentioned clearly. IMO it aint cheap.

[Bill_Yates]

Empty?

You don't really want a course to be empty, you just want it to be managed so that it feels like it's empty.

[Jud_T]

Cheap connotes something that by definition can't be great.  What you want is great yet reasonably priced.  

[Michael George]

Just my opinion, but it is getting very tired when a discussion is brought up in the group re: a "troubled" club and Ballyneal is the sole reference.  Now that the information has come out about the family issues in the club, it appears pretty clear the direction that the club is heading.  Will their membership pricing change, yes, but what national club's model has not changed.  I really don't want this post to be the start of further discussion on Ballyneal and really, really hope people stop making conjectures about things related to the club.  Just is getting very tiresome.  Again, just my opinion.

Michael,

Jim is what I consider a founding member and has now mentioned twice that we should be able to acquire affordable memberships in 2012.  I think that is great, some people might see it as promotion.  

If a member of a club wishes to promote affordable memberships I am in no position to protest.  JC Jones even became a member this year at a different club because of a similar thread.  The last thing Ballyneal needs now is to be forgotten.

John - I have absolutely no problem with Jim posting on what Ballyneal is doing.  What gets tiresome is when you see Ballyneal discussed in a "great, cheap and empty" thread.  Ballyneal is no different than most national clubs on this issue.  AGain, I don't want to get in a Ballyneal discussion.  I am just sick of reading about the conjecture that some post about Ballyneal.