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Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« on: January 25, 2012, 05:32:23 PM »
This question is to be sung to the tune of a Mucci question:
Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
Here is one answer from a recent press release:



Any other nice examples?

I'll be taking the forks out of my eyes...

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 05:37:21 PM »
Where are the cart paths?

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 05:47:25 PM »
Can you explain what you mean by "walkback"?

Bart

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 05:51:12 PM »
Can you explain what you mean by "walkback"?

Bart
The walk back from the 6th green to the 7th tee is an example.


Mike,
That is really a turkey of a layout :P

Dave Givnish

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 05:55:18 PM »
Does the starter issue safety helmets to use for that walk?

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 06:03:45 PM »
Do people really pay to have stuff like that built?  :o
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 06:05:49 PM »
Forget about Dismal River (Doak), this is obviously the finest routing in the history of the game. ;D

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 06:07:26 PM »
Forget about Dismal River (Doak), this is obviously the finest routing in the history of the game. ;D

It has an official endorsement from the US Olympic race walking team.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 06:13:43 PM »
Please tell me that this plan was hand written and is not really to scale. This just cannot be real. Is it April 1st?

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2012, 06:14:51 PM »
I confess I do like 1, maybe 2 of these per round.

You get to leave your bag behind.  

Just you and your driver, praying you can hit it further than where you left the rest of your clubs.
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2012, 07:21:02 PM »
I personally see a good number of walkbacks for back tees. The primary issue to me is one of safety. One should not put a tee where it will be subject to fly balls. especially from blind direction. #13 green and 14 tee at Bandon Dunes as well as 16 green and 17 tee are both dangerous tee locations.

Dick Kirkpatrick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 08:06:52 PM »
Perhaps if the drawing shown had some elevations and also
some envoirnmental constraint lines, there would have been some kinder comments and opinions.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 08:20:57 PM »
I'd say it's a turkey of a course, but it ain't yet Thanksgiving.

Rick Smith did a near-entire hole one at his Shenendoah course at Turning Stone in New York state.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Anthony Gray

Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2012, 08:51:15 PM »
Safety would be my guess.


  Anthony

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 12:07:24 AM »
Because they suck. Mackenzie wrote onthis topic and I think he was right. 

Joe Leenheer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 12:52:18 AM »
"Walkbacks" may have been necessary to achieve a hole design/placement "back in the day". Now course designers have more power in their hands with machinery and money.  Another quirky feature killed by the steam shovel.
Never let the quality of your game determine the quality of your time spent playing it.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 01:59:45 AM »
How many walkbacks were not walkbacks when the course first opened?  Colt, MacKenzie and others wrote of the need to allow space for the courses to be lengthened in future. It’s just that they lacked imagination and that’s why we get to enjoy walkbacks so much today.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 02:40:19 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 02:03:27 AM »
Maybe I am mistaken, but I took Nuzzo's question to be walk backs to back tees with daily tees near the previous green.  If this is the case, yes, I would like to see nearly 100% walk backs because it makes sense on percentages of who plays from which tees.  Of course, if carts are involved it doesn't really matter, but then neither does routing a sound walking course.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Benny Hillard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 04:27:25 AM »
Maybe I am mistaken, but I took Nuzzo's question to be walk backs to back tees with daily tees near the previous green.  If this is the case, yes, I would like to see nearly 100% walk backs because it makes sense on percentages of who plays from which tees.  Of course, if carts are involved it doesn't really matter, but then neither does routing a sound walking course.

Ciao

Sean,
Do you know of the percentage breakdowns for tee usage?

Benny

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 05:03:32 AM »
Maybe I am mistaken, but I took Nuzzo's question to be walk backs to back tees with daily tees near the previous green.  If this is the case, yes, I would like to see nearly 100% walk backs because it makes sense on percentages of who plays from which tees.  Of course, if carts are involved it doesn't really matter, but then neither does routing a sound walking course.

Ciao

Sean,
Do you know of the percentage breakdowns for tee usage?

Benny

Depends on many variables Benny...

Taking a standard 4 tee set up Irish course at circa 7,000 yards, from front tee to back tee, in and around 10% - 30% - 50% - 10% wouldn't be too far off the mark...


Benny Hillard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 05:19:43 AM »
Thanks for that Ally


Jim Colton

Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 06:09:07 AM »
Where is that course? That is just plain awful.

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 09:00:14 AM »
Man that looks like a tough walk...

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2012, 10:28:59 AM »
Gee, I only count 16 routing flaws.  With all the detailed planning that went into the hotel/resort area (upper left) I would guess that this is a "Land Planner Special".  What I mean by that is often times a Land Planner will do a plan to get a project through the approval process.  Then, after approvals are granted, the developer turn the golf course over to an architect and says "here, do the golf course".  Of course that's when the GCA has to try to fix as many of the inherited flaws as possible (often having to scrap the whole thing and start from scratch).  The problems begin when those who gave the approvals get pissed when they see massive changes.  So, to be politically expedient, the GCA is forced into the existing routing.  Unlike a President, no one listens or cares when, after the fact, he states "but I inhereted this mess".  When the course opens, he is crucified on GCA by the beardpullers.
PS, note the Land Planner trick of not showing future housing development by just depicting blank green space.
Coasting is a downhill process

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why don't more modern courses have more walkbacks?
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 11:14:12 AM »
Augusta National has a few notable walk backs for the pros.  (I suspect they aren't really so for the members tees)

6 green to 7 tee
7 green to 8 tee
10 green to 11 tee
11 green to 12 tee
14 green to 15 tee.