Dormie Club - George Golf Design Practice Facility Plan

[Ed Oden]

OK, I really love this one.  In addition to the Contentment master plan, Lester sent me the plan for the practice facility at the Dormie Club and I am posting it here with his permission.  But before I do, a little background is in order.  As I understand it, after visiting the site, Lester and Glenn Muckley (his senior design associate) decided that they would each independently take a crack at designing a plan for the practice course.  When they finished and compared plans, they realized that their routings were very similar, but in reverse.  That is, the tees and greens were largely in the same places, but one plan went clockwise and the other went counterclockwise.  Rather than pick one, they decided to use them both so that the routing can be reversed to provide maximum variety.  Hopefully, Lester will chime in and set things straight if I have misstated anything.  In the meantime, here is the plan, which I have intentionally left at a large image size so that some detail can be seen, although this means you will need to use the scroll bar.  The more I look at this, the more I find it fascinating. 

[Ed Oden]

To help provide some context to location, I have overlayed the practice plan on top of a Google Earth image of the Dormie site...



Unfortunately, the Google Earth image predates the construction of the first 3 holes of the main course, which are roughly where the Dormie logo is on the overlayed practice plan.  I understand that the practice facility would basically abut the first green/second hole of the main course.

[Bill_McBride]

Damn it Ed, you are making us all look like slackers with your great Maxwell and Contentment threads and now this!   Thanks for all the good work, cool stuff.

[George Freeman]

VERY cool!  Thanks Ed.

Am I missing something?  I thought Dormie Club was having some financial issues.  Now they're building a "short course" and an intricate practice area?  It would be great if that were the case!

Any idea when this will be completed?  Lester?

[Ed Oden]

George, I don't think anyone knows for sure when the practice facility will be built.  But it's too damn cool not to get built, so I refuse to put an "if" into the equation.  

As an aside, I hope this thread does not devolve into another discussion of the financial situation at Dormie.  That's been done many times before.  Rather, I'd like to know what people think of the reversible design concept Lester and Glenn created.  Is this something that should be considered elsewhere?

[Ben Sims]

Rather, I'd like to know what people think of the reversable design concept Lester and Glenn created.  Is this something that should be considered elsewhere?

By far the mos unique aspect to what looks like a world class facility.  In fact, I can't think of a "practice" facility that extensive anywhere on the planet off the top of my head.  A cursory 5 minutes glance at the routing, I'm nearly even in my preference, with the blue 10 being the best due to a smaller amount of carries into the "back" of greens. 

Maybe the very middle of the corridor for the range itself doesn't allow for spraying.  Looks to be only 100yds-ish wide.  I like the idea of the free form chipping and short game area on the far left.

[George Freeman]

I hope this thread does not devolve into another discussion of the financial situation at Dormie. 

Agree 100%.


I think the design idea is really, really cool.  Creating that much variety and that many different shots on what appears to be a fairly small piece of land is something we should all applaud.  Looks like the perfect early evening playground with a few buddies and a few beers.

My only question is how much additional maintained turf is needed to implement this with approaches needed from both sides of the greens, additional teeing ground, larger greens, etc?

[George Freeman]

Is the lake already there?  I can't tell from the overlay.

[Ed Oden]

Is the lake already there?  I can't tell from the overlay.

George, the lake is not presently there.  Here is the Google Earth image without the overlay...

[Bruce Wellmon]

Cory told me recently during my round at DC that it was reversible.
We were discussing the "warm up" range vs the  new practice range/facility.
I think it is a fantastic feature.
Is there any other facility in the country comparable?

[PCCraig]

Awesome stuff. Talk about a fun place to go kill a few hours on a sunny North Carolina day!

Not only would it be great to practice on, but I'm sure it would be a great place to have juniors play and practice on as well.

[Howard Riefs]

Great design and facility.

Perhaps semantics, but is the "Executive Course" terminology still used?  What's the threshold between a 9 hole, ~2,500 yard "practice facility" and it being called an "Executive Course"? 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

As a true practice junkie, I think I have just found my" field of dreams"........this is a plce I could spend a week just practicing away until my heart is content or otherwise.
What a tremendous plan, please keep us informed of its progress....I would make the trip just to see the practice facility, just as I have planned a trip to see the new Stanford facility later this year.

[Doug Lindahl]

The DC used to have a master plan hanging in the clubhouse which already displayed their intentions to build something like this.  I think if they do they also have an opportunity to build the clubhouse in a better location then it is currently planned for.  I would place the clubhouse nearer the proposed practice facility and use the current warm up area as a sod farm.  Consolidating the clubhouse and practice facilities and making the second hole number 1 would fix a few minor details about the DC that I dislike:
   1.The first par three would be played as number 6 instead of 7 helping flow.  Five par fours in a row to start is a bit much.
   2.18 is a weak finishing hole.  The green is awesome but Bill and Ben can have their forced layup.
   3. Hole number 1 could be a stout finishing hole if the tee were moved back and to the right.  Imagine the pro shop being the 18th tee. 490 yards of fun!
   4.  The current warm up area is a neat idea but people just don't get it (25 balls, now get your ass on the first tee!).  Also, could you imagine having to pick up those range balls from the native grasses left and the woods on the right?
 
My theory is the practice facility, when originally planned, was going to be public (thus the disconnect from the golf course) and the golf course was to be private.  I wonder how this has changed since DC has had some hiccups.  Could this work with a well known teacher opening a golf school there and picking up part of the tab?

[Tim Nugent]

I think the design idea is really, really cool.  Creating that much variety and that many different shots on what appears to be a fairly small piece of land is something we should all applaud.  Looks like the perfect early evening playground with a few buddies and a few beers.

My only question is how much additional maintained turf is needed to implement this with approaches needed from both sides of the greens, additional teeing ground, larger greens, etc?

George, it looks like there are 11 greens and at least 20 tees so yes, the maintenance cost would go up. 
This reminds me of the April 1st, reverse St. Andrews conept.
It will be a challange to build the greens to all reflect multiple approach angles.
Lester, how the business plan for this works? To me, it seems like DC becomes a quasi 27- hole facility (28?).  I assume the lake is for irrigation water storage purposes (I seem to recall some supply issue with the municipality).  Yes? No?
Also, why the 10 holes? Was having 2 odd numbered 9's (5's) the criteria?  After arriving at the reersable concept, was any thought given to eliminating one of the par 3 greens and just having a par 34 9-hole course (since you can only play it in one direction at a time)?
I the left range teeing area unulating?  It appears to double as a short game practice area.  That would be interesting as I believe more golfers should have the ability to practice varying lies somewhere besides just on the course.

[Jason Connor]

How will this change the architectural merit of the greens given they'll have to be receptive from both sides?

PS: I think this is awesome and I can imagine being content being a member of such a 'club' with this as it's only course.

[Lou Cutolo]

That looks fantastic what a great place to spend the afternoon after a morning round. Just curious way was George Golf design hired to build the practice area over C&C?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I must admit this looks very interesting. I am not sure how to say anything other than wow though. The needs for practice grounds etc have a lot to do with membership and expected activity levels. That is still the case no matter how cool the design. The budget for this could be very large based on the diagram.

[Lester George]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the nice comments about our Proving Grounds at Dormie Club.  It is in design development right now, however, there is no start-date in focus yet. 

Yes there are 10 holes because of variety and why not?  Yes there are 11 greens because playing 15 back to our 5th green would have brought the back of someones yard into play from a par five angle.  When we cut it short it also afforded us a chance for different par on the counter loop. 

The theory being that on Monday, Wednesday, Friday (for example) the course plays clockwise, the other days it plays counterclockwise.  Its just a variety and teaching thing.  Water and wind dictated the reversible nature, besides, I think it could become boring if always played the same. 

I think it is a hell-of-a place to sit with cigar, drink, friends to start or (more importantly) end the day.  It has not been determined yet if it will be exclusive to Dormie, but it sure makes sense to leave it available to reservations for all until Dormie fills up.  I like it as a stand-alone profit center and I think it could work nicely into other amenities and golf packages.

Lester

[Jud_T]

Lester,

I hope gambling is not discouraged...

[Lester George]

Gambling encouraged.  I can't imagine playing it without a mess of bets.

Lester

[Brett_Morrissy]

Lester: looks very exciting.

how much land have you used to incorporate the routing? land parcel size.

if you had more would you have designed/routed more holes, or had allowed more space between/around holes?

[Lester George]

Brett,

We are using approximately 70 acres dictated by the owner and already designated through zoning.  Of course, we all find ourselves trying to find more land in the right places, but this worked well for what we were trying to accomplish.  There are some constraints such as wetlands, setbacks and real estate (to the north) but that is true with all sites. 

If we had more land we would have probably just expanded the range and shortgame area.  Many more holes and you start looking too much like a third nine or and after thought.  We think 10 holes is just right for this facility. 

Lester

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not trying to be the devils advocate here...

...but how does this practice area generate enough revenue to even cover the maintainence costs, much less the land costs?  With a piece of land that large, I'm guessing that would need to be $20-$30 per head just to cover costs....for a practice area?

[George Freeman]

Kalen - if it were 10 formal holes plus the practice range, I don't think you would have too much trouble charging $20-30, maybe even more if it was unlimited.