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Anthony Gray

Which top 5 is better?
« on: January 21, 2012, 07:11:50 PM »


  Scotland..England..Northern Ireland..Ireland



Jackson C

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 07:34:53 PM »
It's between Scotland and England - Northern Island has two biggies but not the strength in depth. Nor does Ireland.

Scotland has: St Andrews, Turnberry and Muirfield. The last two are likely Dornoch and Carnastie??

England has: George's, Birkdale and Sunningdale. The last two are debatable: probably Woodhall and either Lytham or Hoylake.

In top 5, Scotalnd wins, in top 20, England wins hands down. The other countries arent in the picture for strength in depth.

For the best golf across a large spread, I think England is the best country in the world.

I am not so sure Brian.
You may have to get to 30 before that bears out.

By my count, the 15-20 in Scotland could include:
Renaissance
Narin
Brora
Prestwick
Crail
Loch Lomond
Gleneagles

May be a preference on my part, but that ain't too shabby.
"The secrets that golf reveals to the game's best are secrets those players must discover for themselves."
Christy O'Connor, Sr. (1998)

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 08:52:24 PM »
What sets England apart from the rest is the quality and number of great inland courses. Scotland wins if only Links courses are
counted. Otherwise it is England.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sam Morrow

Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 08:53:55 PM »
Does Wales have any leg to stand on in this debate?

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 03:03:56 AM »
Sam - no

Brian - your top 5 instantly shows why England is best due to it's inland strength. I'd take Ganton over Lytham and Hoylake. That would give you two links, two heaths and an inland links!
Cave Nil Vino

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 03:04:23 AM »
I'll take

Portrush; Lahinch; Ballbunion (tbc): Portmarnock and RCD

We were asked for 5, an arbitrary no, and that's the strongest hand I see.


(Anthony why not split the mach larger England into two or 3 areas?)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 03:26:22 AM »
Tony if your going to combine Ireland and Northern Ireland you may as well combine Wales and Scotland to add in Royal Porthcawl.
Cave Nil Vino

Mark Pearce

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 04:07:53 AM »
Ganton is clearly top 5 in England.  For me it's superior to Woodhall, Lytham and Hoylake.

Jackson, what are your 6-10 in Scotlandand which 5 English courses do you think they are up again?  Frankly Scotland is struggling outside to top 5.  Not because its 6-20 are week but because of the strength of England's.  Which English courses have you played?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 04:18:33 AM »
Brian IMVHO Sunny New beats the Old hands down. 3 & 9 are just too weak as short par 4s, I'm a lover of great short 4s and 11 Old is a great example but you cannot be a world class course with two weak holes. The Old has the history hence the rankings.

Make it 4 links and an inland course and where does Ireland go? At least Scotland has Gleneagles Kings and Loch Lomond as top class inland courses of the highest order.
Cave Nil Vino

Mark Pearce

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 04:23:56 AM »
Brian,

Sunningdale is a big hole in my CV and needs to be filled.  But £280 for both courses?  That's more than 3x a day at Ganton and more than 5x a day at Silloth!
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 04:30:10 AM »
Well, first you have to have a top 5.

ENGLAND:
1. St Enodoc
1. Sandwich
7. Rye
10. Deal
10. St Georges Hill

IRELAND (I count as one country because of same union):  
1. Ballybunion
6. Lahinch
7. Co Down
10. The Island
10. Enniscrone

SCOTLAND:
1. Prestwick
1. TOC
7. NB
10. Aberdeen
15. Dornoch

WALES: Pennard, Southerndown, Tenby, Aberdovey & Porthcawl

15. Porthcawl
17. Pennard
17. Southerndown
19. Tenby
19. Aberdovey

By my crude reckoining Ireland comes out on top, England second and Scotland third, but the three are about equal.  

Given that all the courses are plenty good enough for me, the more interesting thing is I don't think any list wins in terms of where I would choose to play.  They are all about equal.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 06:44:58 AM »
Scotland has the best five top 5 by the popular opinions:
Scotland has Turnberry, TOC, Muirfield, Carnoustie and Loch Lomond which relates to 1 4 5 6 and 9 in Golf Worlds ratings.
Ireland has RCD, Portrush, Waterville, Ballybunion and Portmarnock which relates to 2, 7, 13, 14 and 18
England has Birkdale, Woodhall Spa, Sunningdale, Hoylake and RSG which relates to 3, 8, 10, 15 and 16
Wales is just nowhere near
Scotland has TOC, Turnberry, Muirfield, Gleneagles, Carnoustie, which relates to 1,3,4,7 and 10 in Golf Monthly ratings.
Those same sort of indexes are mirrorred with the other UK magazines and listings too.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 06:57:48 AM »

1)   Fife
2)   East Lothian
3)   Ayrshire
4)   Ross & Cromarty
5)   Perthshire

Followed by Moray, Angus, Nairnshire, Aberdeenshire and a host of many, many more.

Now what many will have to do is work out the courses from the above 5 shires of Scotland. 

Melvyn


Melvyn Morrow

Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2012, 07:16:36 AM »

Brian

Not bad, but I was hoping to see 5 courses from each Shire, not just one, thats just toooooooo easy. ;D

Melvyn

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2012, 09:35:32 AM »
Delete
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 03:59:02 PM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Jackson C

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 09:47:13 AM »
Ganton is clearly top 5 in England.  For me it's superior to Woodhall, Lytham and Hoylake.

Jackson, what are your 6-10 in Scotlandand which 5 English courses do you think they are up again?  Frankly Scotland is struggling outside to top 5.  Not because its 6-20 are week but because of the strength of England's.  Which English courses have you played?

Hi Mark,

I have not played in England yet.  Read about it and desire to but not yet.
I have played in Scotland, and thus far my preference is for links courses.

Reading Brian's first post got me to thinking what may be the bottom 20 in Scotland.  How can he be so sure England's bottom of its top 20 is so far superior.  So I went through the list of top courses in Scotland in my mind, and then cross checked with the recent publication list of top courses in GB&I, and what do you know?  There are more than 20 Scottish courses on that list, and the bottom of the 20 are some very fine and attractive courses.

I would love to hear which English courses would be in the bottom of its 20, and how they would compare to the bottom of the Scottish 20.  Perhaps they are difficult to compare because we are basically talking preferences -- predominately heathland vs. links?

Thanks,
Jackson
"The secrets that golf reveals to the game's best are secrets those players must discover for themselves."
Christy O'Connor, Sr. (1998)

Bill Gayne

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 11:11:52 AM »
I would go with Scotland for purposes of this question as to the best top five golf courses but my favorite golf place to visit is Ireland.

Wade Schueneman

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 02:45:03 PM »
Since Ireland/NE and Wales/England could each be toured together reasonablly (or as reasonably as Scotland, if remote courses like Dornoch are to be included), then I would consider the following possibilities

Ireland/NE

RCD
Lahinch
Ballybunion
Portrush
Carne

Scotland

TOC
Muirfield
Prestwick
The Machrie
Cruden Bay

England/Wales

RSG
St. Georges Hill
Addington
Pennard
St. Enodoc

I have not played a number of these courses (as I have never been to England), but I have tried to include what I suspect to be a balanced set of five experinces from each region.

For me, Ireland/NE is the clear winner, athough I imagine that any of these lists would make for, in the words of Mac Plumart, an EPIC golf trip!
 

David_Tepper

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 02:50:57 PM »
Treating the island of Ireland as one entity, I would agree with Sean A. that you will find the collection of the 5 best courses there, although I would disagree with his choice of which are in that group.

In no particular order, I would suggest County Down, Portrush, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Portmarnock.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 12:35:56 PM »
Wade 1/5 for England & Wales. RStG, Rye, West Sussex & any of the heaths would be fabulous and little travel. Pennard is lovely and quirky but you wouldn't pass Royal Porthcawl to get there on it's own.

Wales can be a difficult tour, Porthcawl to Harlech is 3 hours 49 mins and you'd be shocked if you ever went into 5th gear.

Are Machrie and Cruden Bay top 5 Scotland contenders?
Cave Nil Vino

Gary Slatter

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2012, 02:52:08 PM »
in my books it is a 4-way tie, you canna go wrong, Wales is alone in 5th
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 03:09:33 PM »
Interestingly IMO Wales is on par with Fife and East Lothian for holiday golf on wonderful second tier links courses.
Cave Nil Vino

Mark Pearce

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 01:18:09 AM »
Interestingly IMO Wales is on par with Fife and East Lothian for holiday golf on wonderful second tier links courses.
I think that Fife beats East Lothian hands down for 2nd tier courses.  East Lothian's strength is its first tier, Muirfield, NBWL, Renaissance.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 01:27:19 AM »
Mark it may well do but a Dunbar, Gullane 2&3, Luffness New and Kilspindie trip is pretty neat.

I wouldn't include Renaissance just as I wouldn't include Loch Lomond or Skibo in their areas as they are private no visitor clubs.
Cave Nil Vino

Sean_A

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Re: Which top 5 is better?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 07:27:46 AM »
Treating the island of Ireland as one entity, I would agree with Sean A. that you will find the collection of the 5 best courses there, although I would disagree with his choice of which are in that group.

In no particular order, I would suggest County Down, Portrush, Ballybunion, Lahinch and Portmarnock.

David

I can understand the other four, but I have long wondered what makes Portmarnock one of the top 5.  It is an excellent course, but to me, not very distinguished.  If I had to compare it to another course, it would be Princes. 

Maybe its time that those in the know had a conversation about Portmarnock.  The course isn't talked about that much on here and maybe it should be.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing