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Mark Saltzman

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2012, 12:48:58 PM »
Thanks, JLahrman.  The holes most often cited as weak at Plainfield are the 'tunnel holes,' the stretch from 13-15.  The restoration of the diagonal ridge at 13 and the restoration of the great bunkering at 15 makes these holes interesting.  Since they are on flatter land (13-14) and use ponds as the central hazard (13-14), these holes do stick-out as different from the rest, though I would not call them bad. 

I think Ross used the boundaries very well at PCC.  OB is potentially in play on several holes (5, 13, 15-17), but it certainly is not just-off the fairway.  In each case, the OB guards the ideal line from the tee, but it is a fairly long way from the ideal line of play.  It is at just the right distance from the fairway that you know it's there, but it really shouldn't be an issue.  But, somehow just seeing it and knowing it's there... can produce some pretty nervy swings... which in my case results in weak shots away from the OB and towards the area from which the green is more difficult to approach.

Keith Phillips

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2012, 01:06:28 PM »
#11 at Plainfield is the best inland par-3 I have ever played. It is amazing how much fear this little hole can instill in you at the tee.

My first shot hit the front middle of the green and spun back into the bunker. My second shot was just a bit short and it rolled back as well. When I got my third shot about 5 feet of the pin, I had the biggest smile on my face of the entire day. The shot out of the front bunker is so much fun, I could have spent an hour there.


I love Plainfield - many, many great holes (I love 7, 9, 12 and 16 in particular) - not a fan of 17 or the old 18 (haven't played new), but the overall package is hard to beat - i do think 11 is very cool and one of more dramatic inland par 3s I've seen but no way I'd have it on my 'best' lists - for me it is just too penal - a great match play hole but way too easy to take triple - very tough to get up and down from the either the front bunker or from over the back - again, i really like the hole but think it's impact on the scorecard can be too great for it to be a 'best' - there are numerous short par 3s within the MGA that I prefer

Mark McKeever

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2012, 09:33:27 AM »
Thanks for the tour Mark!  Looks like an awesome place.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Brian Finn

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I had the pleasure of playing at Plainfield yesterday and thought this photo thread was worthy of a bump.  Personally, I did not think there was a single weak hole on the course. The greens are among the best I have played. Those that noticed similarities to Brookside Canton are spot on.  Not only are bunkers and greens done in a very similar manner, but also the property itself and the many internal vistas across the course frequently reminded me of Brookside.  another ideal case study in the aesthetic benefits of tree removal.  The shaved down chipping areas connecting many greens to subsequent tees were great in terms of the playing options afforded and the flow/feel of the course.  I've tried to narrow my list of favorite holes at Plainfield and seem to repeatedly end up with over half the course. Choosing one favorite of each par, i would go with 11 (par 3), 7 (par 4), and 12 (par 5).  To say I was impressed would be an understatement.
New for '24: Monifieth x2, Montrose x2, Panmure, Carnoustie x3, Scotscraig, Kingsbarns, Elie, Dumbarnie, Lundin, Belvedere, The Loop x2, Forest Dunes, Arcadia Bluffs x2, Kapalua Plantation, Windsong Farm, Minikahda...

Matt Bielawa

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Plainfield looks like a complete blast on TV.  I'm loving how it's puzzling some of the pros.  Seems like a really fun track.

Dan Herrmann

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What's the "vibe" or "culture" of the club?   The course looks like it's world-class, so the members have a real gem.   

Nigel Islam

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It really looks quite interesting to me too. Seems like there are a few shorter par 4s that are creating some issues for the pros.

Matthew Rose

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15 and 18 were driving the pros crazy. They didn't know what to do. Most of them just blindly bombed driver down there somewhere and had all sorts of insane shots to deal with. It was fantastic.


Even Kostis said at one point on the broadcast something to the effect of the pros were struggling with the concept that they couldn't overpower a golf course.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Terry Lavin

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I'll add my voice to those admiring the presentation of this Ross gem. It looks fab on television. Just great.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Peter Pallotta

I had forgotten just how good Mark's photo tours are; thanks, Mark.


I think it was Mr. Vostinak (I hope I have the spelling right) who first made me aware of Plainfield.  From photos only, it remains the Ross course that I think most lovely; nothing is forced, not even the simplicity.


Peter

Nigel Islam

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I had forgotten just how good Mark's photo tours are; thanks, Mark.


I think it was Mr. Vostinak (I hope I have the spelling right) who first made me aware of Plainfield.  From photos only, it remains the Ross course that I think most lovely; nothing is forced, not even the simplicity.


Peter




I had not bothered to look where they were playing the Barclays, and I could tell when I turned it on that it was a Ross course.

mike_malone

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Courses in the Midatlantic region are benefiting from unusually low humidity in the last few weeks. This enables Plainfield to shine even more than usual
AKA Mayday

Bill_McBride

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I had forgotten just how good Mark's photo tours are; thanks, Mark.


I think it was Mr. Vostinak (I hope I have the spelling right) who first made me aware of Plainfield.  From photos only, it remains the Ross course that I think most lovely; nothing is forced, not even the simplicity.


Peter




I had not bothered to look where they were playing the Barclays, and I could tell when I turned it on that it was a Ross course.


Funny you say that.  I haven't played that many Ross courses growing up in the west and living on the Gulf Coast but I have to say, when I saw this course on TV, I thought it was vintage Raynor!

Patrick_Mucci

Plainfield is a terrific golf course.
 
Holes # 13, 14 and 15 were added subsequent to Ross, when the original 17th and 18th holes were eliminated.
 
# 12 is another non-Ross hole that is the result of combining a par 4 and a par 3
 
For 50 years Plainfield has always presented a significant challenge to local competitors, then it gained more notoriety as USGA and PGA events were hosted.
 
Gil Hanse's work improved the course significantly.

Wayne_Kozun

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And it is interesting that, other than Jason Day, they didn't really tear up the course as there were only five guys in double digits under par - despite the fact that the course played as short as 6750 yards.  But the difficulty of the greens made up for it.

JBovay

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2015, 09:58:38 PM »

I walked Plainfield, outside the ropes, during the final round of the Barclays on Sunday and I was blown away. I'd glanced at Mark's photos in this thread and watched about an hour of TV coverage of the event, but was unprepared for the dramatic slopes and contours of the property. Photos and video simply cannot do justice to elevation. As mentioned, 15 of the holes play across a slope that tumbles down from the clubhouse, but the roly-poly nature of the landscape means that a player might face an uphill or downhill or fade or hook lie on any of these holes--as far as I could tell from my vantage. Besides this, a long hitter might face 11 or 12 holes with blind shots, and some of the green contours are as severe as I've seen.


As a spectator, my introduction to the course was as follows: (1) the blind tenth tee shot, with no distinguishing feature or aiming point except for a grandstand; (2) watching four twosomes play the ninth hole, hitting wedges or perhaps 9-irons in but facing a blind approach, and only one player making a birdie despite a bunch of good opportunities on what appeared to be the flattest portion of the green. It was pretty clear to me from these few acres of the property that the course had something different to offer.


We then walked the course, and the following design elements stood out to me as particular highlights:


 - The first green, with its severe slope to the front left;
 - The two lines of bunkering angled into the second green from the right, with the right side of the green just tucked behind a corner of one;
 - The front edge of the sixth green, like a pie crust against the front bunkers, sure to propel balls all the way to the back;
 - The angle at which the eighth green is laid into the hillside (now covered with fescue), suggesting a draw from what's likely to be a fade lie;
- False fronts deep into the greens at nine and 11 and probably other holes;

 - The bunkered hillside over which the second shot on 16 must be played blindly, and the green on that hole sloped so severely that Jason Day attempted to play a bunker shot about 90 degrees away from the hole.


Bunker placements and the artistry of them (with quite varied styles) are superb, and the course really does make excellent use of the whole property. One minor negative note about the routing would be that three of the four par fives play the same direction, parallel. I'm not even sure that the "tunnel" holes detract too much--they probably allow players a nice breather (of sorts) before the final stretch uphill toward the clubhouse again.
 
The course's setting on a hillside, parkland style but with a lot of recent tree clearing, reminded me of Olympic Club. When I walked Olympic during the US Open in 2012, it seemed to me that the pros struggled to get their shots close to the hole because the USGA had maintained the ground to be so firm that balls needed to land right at the front edge of a green to settle down on the green, with little margin of error. In contrast, Plainfield seemed just about right in terms of firmness, but the best players still struggled to keep their shots close because of the design of the greens. Of course, the winning score at Olympic was quite a bit higher than it was this week...


On a slightly different note, the last time I walked a course during a tournament was at TPC "Boston" outside Providence last year. This was a wholly better spectator experience despite that Ross presumably gave no thought to spectators. At TPC Boston, accessing the first eight holes requires a traverse of several hundred yards through a swamp, and we didn't even try. Most of the rest of the course is laid out through the woods in a way that doesn't allow cutting across fairways to a different hole or any viewing play on other holes. The final few greens at the Deutsche Bank were all but inaccessible to commoners, hemmed in by corporate tents. As mentioned in this thread, Plainfield by contrast lends itself to watching play unfold on multiple holes at once, and we had direct, open views of every green. Congratulations to the PGA Tour for bringing the Barclays to Plainfield this year.


JB
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 10:00:33 PM by JBovay »

MCirba

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2015, 09:21:07 AM »
JBovay,

I was there on Sunday and was going to write something but I'm a little tired this morning and would simply thank you for that great observational writeup and heartily concur.

I'd only add that my wife, a budding architectural critic with a better eye than me was also duly impressed.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Cliff Hamm

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2015, 10:48:59 AM »
 Agree totally with the comments about TPC Boston. Have been to many, many pros tournaments and this is the worst spectator venue of them all.On the front  the swamp causes thousands of spectators to cross one bridge. It is a slow process but also dangerous.


The observation on the back is totally accurate. One is forced to merely walk the course without cutting across any fairways.  Toward the end corporate chalets  block views.  The only way to spectate is the pick a spot sit for an hour, hour and a half, pick another spot and so on. I thought the initial idea of TPC courses was to provide a quality spectator experience. I don't think TPC could be worse if they tried.

Jeff Schley

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Just played Plainfield today and certainly was impressed to say the least.  The Donald Ross gem has a wonderful set of greens.  They are back to front slope with numerous false fronts as is typical.  The course has some undulations for sure, but with tee boxes very close to greens it is very walkable. They had the rough maybe 3 inches, but the fescue (which I found 2x’s) was pretty thick as my almost broken left wrist can attest.  The false fronts were so prevalent that my caddie said I’m giving you 2 yardages for each hole, one to the flag the other to carry the false front.))))


We had a wonderful host who donated this round to a charity auction and our caddies were pretty good at reading the putts.  1 was a college kid the other a pro caddie apparently who does it for a living and comes to Florida for the winter.


The clubhouse is a pretty cool with a grill room, bar, top flight locker room, and patio overlooking 18 and 9 with white rocking chairs.


They could still use some additional  tree removal IMO, although I didn’t see the course pre Hanse renovation.  I’m sure it must have been pretty cramped. 
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Joe Schackman

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The clubhouse is a pretty cool with a grill room, bar, top flight locker room, and patio overlooking 18 and 9 with white rocking chairs.
 

The Patio is fantastic unless you are coming up the 9th hole and in the front greenside bunker and the pin is in the back. Pretty nerve racking with a big group of people right in the potential line of fire!

Bill Crane

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One of my favorite Donald Ross courses.   If you play P C C  and Somerset Hills ( 25 minutes away ) in one weekend you have had super golf experiences, and it doesn't even feel like you are in NJ.   


Some great holes, fascinating greens and it hugs the land so well.


Play either if you get the chance.


And the Pro is a Bucknell U alum !



_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Joe Bausch

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I had forgotten how good this old photo tour thread is!  Great job, Mark.

It catalyzed me to re-process my Plainfield photo album from an August 2010 visit (when I really didn't know what I was doing; but recomposing and touching up some really helps!). 

This re-done album is nice because it includes Ross hole diagrams as well as Google Earth hole screengrabs.  Here is the link:

http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Plainfield/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Schackman

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A somewhat fun fact/story.

The building and fields that you see in picture #4 bordering the 15th and 16th holes is actually where I attended Middle School and High School (Wardlaw-Hartridge).

The school golf team was allowed to, twice a year, play PCC. Our golf coach would always schedule us for Mondays when we did NOT have matches so that we could play all 18 holes. It was a real treat.

The rumor then was that it was discovered a number of years ago that part of the golf course was actually on land owned by the school. The school and the club made a deal that in some capacity included an agreement that the golf team was allowed to play twice a year.

I believed it as a 16 year old but in hindsight don't believe that was the case. There is a fairly cordial relationship between the club and the school owing to the fact that a number of influential families at the school are also longtime members of PCC. The school has also helped with parking whenever the Barclays has come to PCC.

But ya. Pretty great getting to play there twice a school year :)

Niall C

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I didn't see this first time round which was a miss on my part. The course looks great despite some saying the photos don't do the course justice which seems a bit harsh on Mark but then it might be that good. A few folk mentioned that it was a great design for such a small property. Can anyone say how big the site is ?

Niall

Jeff Schley

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Re: Plainfield CC, Edison, N.J. (Donald Ross) - A Photo Tour - All 18 Posted
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2021, 08:54:12 AM »
Played here again in July and one of my 2 favorite Ross courses (Essex being the other). I love 10 and 11. 10 is a bit underrated IMO. Dogleg right, fairway runs right to left until the turn and an imaginative green. Not long, but you have to place your tee shot correctly or you are blind on your approach.

11 needs no endorsement from me, but certainly in my top 5 short par 3's I have played. If you miss left you can use the punchbowl to about half the pins. The slope in this green is why you can't cut the greens extremely short and fast there. It was pretty wet when I played as it rained the day before and with the rain NJ has had this spring/summer the rough was more lush.

Thanks for the very well done photo tour Mark. Also Joe for another edition of his Bausch archives.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

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