These holes must represent a true Doak 0

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This is Carmel Ranch in San Diego which was built on a mountainside to satisfy the open space requirement of 500 acres.  There were a fdew parks thrown in to help.  Just before the course was opened, the developer was somehow (corruption?) able to add 240 houses and a massive appartment unit.  Several holes were changed, but the routing pretty much remained.  This course was designed by Ron Froem.

This hole was originally the 2nd, but is now the 11th.  It is 165 yards.  In the middle of the boomerang green is a 3foot spine splitting the green into halves.



This is the 17th which is 328 yards.  The lake begins 85 yards short of the green.  Because of the sloping, balls seem to collect in a small area where hitting out of a divot is normal.  I have no idea how a player who is unable to carry a ball 100 yards out of a divot can play this hole.  In addtition, the green is very severe with 3 tiers and a falloff of aboout 20 feet over the back.

[Alex Miller]

Carmel Ranch is not a very good course. I agree that 17 is a Doak 0, and is truly an abomination given one of the more pleasant, gentler sloping pieces of land on which the course sits.

I think 11 is not ideal, but at least one can putt from the front left down to the front right. I'd give it a Doak 1 or 2 (if there is in fact a Doak scale that rates holes  )

The whole course is probably a 1 or 2 on the Doak scale, and there are probably another dozen holes which are nearly as bad as 11. The course could be demolished today and I would not GAF.

[Matt_Cohn]

I believe 17 is such because originally the houses were getting hit on both sides of the hole. It was shortened to a par-3 for a time, and then I guess somebody realized if they made the last 100 yards a lake then everyone would hit it <200 off the tee and wouldn't be hitting drivers off of living room windows.

It looks like they turned the driving range into mores condos at some point, sigh.

I lived for a year or two with my mom in an apartment somewhere behind the 3rd tee. The 3rd hold appeared in Ron Whitten's "Architorture" column in Golf Digest 20 or so years ago, for the rocks in the fairway bunker.

Saying Carmel Mountain Ranch is surrounded by homes is like saying that Pebble Beach has some water views, or that Madonna had some other people on stage at the halftime show.