Lester George's Contentment - The Template Game (Results Posted)

[Ed Oden]

After further discussion with Ran, he convinced me to send him a routing plan of Contentment, our new course coming in North Carolina.  I challenged him to try to identify the different "template" holes as we adapted them to the site.  We have a bet on the number he will get and the winner gets dinner.  After that we might post the routing here for y'all to give it a go.  What do you think?

Lester

Lester’s challenge was lost in the shuffle of the thread announcing his Feature Interview with Ran last October… http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=m9sff9g0nevlpc5295hbqvcn37&topic=49704.msg1129037

But no more, as Lester was kind enough to send me the routing plan for Contentment, his CBM/Raynor template course planned for NC.  While I will eventually post the full plan here and in my map thread, for now let’s play the game that Lester envisioned.  I have created cutouts of each hole and will post them below along with its par and yardage.  The challenge is to identify as many of the CBM/Raynor templates as you can.  Since #18 is a Lester original and not a template, I have given you his name for that one – “Contentment" – so you have no one to blame but yourself if you go 0 for 18.  Kind of like getting 200 points for writing your name on the SAT.  The winner will be whoever gets the most right.  There won’t be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total contentment.

There is only one rule:  DO NOT SEARCH FOR THE ANSWERS ON THIS WEBSITE OR ANYWHERE ELSE.  I’m not aware that you will find them, but there is some information out there that could be helpful.  So don’t do it.  In the words of Monty Python, violators will be impaled on a spike.

Here goes…

#1 - Par 5 - 582 yards


#2 – Par 3 – 230 yards


#3 – Par 5 – 575 yards


#4 – Par 4 – 409 yards


#5 – Par 4 – 452 yards


#6 – Par 3 – 143 yards


#7 – Par 4 – 448 yards


#8 – Par 4 – 415 yards


#9 – Par 4 – 384 yards


#10 – Par 4 - 319 yards


#11 – Par 4 – 475 yards


#12 – Par 3 – 227 yards


#13 – Par 4 – 450 yards


#14 – Par 5 – 652 yards


#15 – Par 3 – 203 yards


#16 – Par 4 – 367 yards


#17 – Par 5 – 528 yards


#18 “Contentment” – Par 4 – 438 yards


Good luck!

[Cory Lewis]

I'll give it a shot:

#1-Road
#2-Biarritz
#3-Long
#5-Sahara
#6-Short
#7-Double Plateau
#8-Punchbowl
#9-Alps
#11-Cape
#12-Redan
#13-Bottle
#14-Long
#15-Eden
#16-Maiden

[Mark Saltzman]

1 - Double Plateau
2 - Biarritz
3 -
4 - Leven
5 - Bottle
6 - Short
7 - Road
8 - Alps
9 - Sahara

10 - Raynor's Prize Dogleg
11 - Cape
12 - Redan
13 - Hog's Back
14 - Long
15 - Eden
16 - Punchbowl
17 - Cardinal

[Bill_McBride]

I like Mark's list.

I think #3 is a Lido or Channel hole with the tough carry the second shot, or perhaps Mackenzie's prize winner.   Also similar to #9 Kinloch!

[Ed Oden]

Not counting #18, Lewis gets 7 right.  Saltzman and McBride get 8. 

[Bill_McBride]

Not counting #18, Lewis gets 7 right.  Saltzman and McBride get 8. 

Lester is inscrutable. 

[Dean DiBerardino]

1.   Lion’s Mouth
2.   Biarritz
3.   Hog’s Back w/Principals Nose
4.   Leven
5.   Bottle
6.   Short
7.   Road
8.   Cape
9.   Sahara
10. Narrows
11. Raynor’s Prize
12. Redan
13. Punchbowl/Alps
14. Long
15. Eden
16. Strategy
17. Double Plateau/Switchback
18. Contentment

[Garland Bayley]

1 Hog's back?
2 Biarritz
3 Double Plateau?
4 Double Plateau?
5 Sahara?
6 Short
7 Road?
8 Leven?
9 Raynor's prize dogleg
10 Bottle
11 Sahara?
12 Redan
13 Punchbowl?
14 Long
15 Eden
16 Knoll
17 Cape
18 Contentment

[Alex Miller]

I like Dean's list, but with a couple changes (probably wrong)

1 Lion's Mouth
2 Biarritz
3 Principal's nose
4 Leven
5 Bottle
6 Short
7 Road
8 The Pits
9 Hog's back
10 Narrows
11 Cape
12 Redan
13 Punchbowl
14 Long
15 Eden
16 Knoll
17 Switchback
18 Contentment

I also feel as though the double plateau green could be used on one 4, 5, 10, or 16, but it was too hard to guess it. I don't like leaving it off my list though 

[Mark Saltzman]

What are the 'strategy' and 'switchback' templates?

[Jason Topp]

Edit - just noticed these are supposed to be Macdonald/Raynr/Banks Templates.  I have a feeling my list is not a winner!


Tough to tell without green contours but the drawings reminded me of the following holes:

1.  Road
2.  Biarritz
3.  13 - Augusta National
4.  Bottle
5.  ?
6.  Short
7.  16 at The Old Course (Principal's Nose)
8.  Cape
9.  ?

10  Riviera 10
11.  ?
12.  Redan
13.  ?
14.  The Old Course 14
15.  Eden
16.  ?
17.  11 TPC Sawgrass
18 18 TPC Sawgrass

I also suspect there is a Raynor Prize dogleg and a Lido hole mixed in somewhere but I cannot remember how those holes look.

[Cristian]

1. Hog's back
2. Biarritz
3. Strategy
4. Leven
5. Bottle
6. Short
7. Double Plateau
8. Alps
9. Cape
10. Sahara
11 Raynor's Prize dogleg
12. Redan
13. Punchbowl/Alps
14. Long
15. Eden
16.
17.

[Ed Oden]

Alex Miller is the leader in the clubhouse.  Here are the updated results (pending clarification from Lester on one hole, which could affect a couple of totals but not Alex's lead):

Corey Lewis - 7
Mark Saltzman - 8
Bill McBride - 8
Dean DiBerardino - 9
Garland Bayley - 8
Alex Miller - 11
Jason Topp - 5
Cristian Willaert - 8

[Ed Oden]

Last call for entries.  Hopefully someone can give Alex a run for his money.

[Tim Gavrich]

Here goes:

1.    Lion’s Mouth
2.    Biarritz
3.    Narrows
4.    Bottle
5.    Double Plateau
6.    Short
7.    Road
8.    Leven
9.    Prize Dog Leg
10.    Double Plateau
11.    Cape
12.    Redan
13.    Alps
14.    Long
15.    Eden
16.    Punchbowl
17.    Plateau
18.    Contentment

[Ed Oden]

Nice job Tim...but not good enough.  Your 10 spot can't quite catch Alex.

[Bill_McBride]

Is Lion's Mouth a template or a bunker?

[Ed Oden]

Is Lion's Mouth a template or a bunker?

Template.

[Jay Flemma]

1. Lions Mouth
2. Biarritz
3. Principal's Nose
4. Hog's Back
5. Bottle
6. Short
7. Road
8. Narrows
9. Raynor's Prized Dog-leg
10 Punchbowl
11. Cape
12. Redan
13. Valley
14. Long
15. Eden
16. Knoll
17 Double Plateau
18. Contentment

Try as I might, I couldn't find an Alps there, but I really had trouble reading the topo part.  Any one of a number of choices could habe been a Double Plateau or Punchbowl...

[Michael Goldstein]

1.  Lion's Mouth
2.  Biarritz
3. ?
4.  Bottle
5.  Double Plateau
6.  Short
7.  Principal's nose
8.  Alps
9.  Prize dogleg
10.  Narrows
11.  Cape
12.  Redan
13.  Punchbowl
14.  Long
15.  Eden
16.  Knoll
17.  Switchback
18.  Contentment

[Lester George]

Ed,

Wow!  Some of these are really good!

Lester

[Ed Oden]

I have adjusted the totals after consulting with Lester on a couple of answers and giving full credit to everyone for a freebie on the 18th.  Jay Flemma has nipped Alex to take the lead with 13 correct.  Here are the updated results:

Corey Lewis - 8
Mark Saltzman - 9
Bill McBride - 9
Dean DiBerardino - 11
Garland Bayley - 9
Alex Miller - 12
Jason Topp - 6
Cristian Willaert - 9
Tim Gavrich - 11
Jay Flemma - 13
Michael Goldstein - 10

If anyone else wants to take a crack, do so soon since I plan on revealing the answers tonight.

PS - For those who gave "Switchback" as an answer, can you give an example?  It's not in Bahto's book or anything else I can find, so please enlighten.

[Mark Saltzman]

PS - For those who gave "Switchback" as an answer, can you give an example?  It's not in Bahto's book or anything else I can find, so please enlighten.

Ed, though I am far from an expert, I'd never heard of it either.

It is described, however, in the Courses by Country discussion re #6 at The Old White: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-old-white/

"This type hole whereby one shape shot is required off the tee and another into the green (e.g. a fade off the tee to hold the tee ball up against the slope and a draw to bound onto the green) is referred to as a switch back hole. While the term didn’t exist in Macdonald’s day, it is no surprise to see him at the forefront of another timeless design principle. "

[Bill Brightly]

1. Lions Mouth
2. Biarritz
3. Principal's Nose
4. Hog's Back
5. Bottle
6. Short
7. Road
8. Punchbowl
9. Plateau
10. Narrows
11. Cape
12. Redan
13. Raynor's Prize Dogleg
14. Long
15. Eden
16. Maiden
17. Double Plateau
18. Contentment

[Bill_McBride]

PS - For those who gave "Switchback" as an answer, can you give an example?  It's not in Bahto's book or anything else I can find, so please enlighten.

Ed, though I am far from an expert, I'd never heard of it either.

It is described, however, in the Courses by Country discussion re #6 at The Old White: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-old-white/

"This type hole whereby one shape shot is required off the tee and another into the green (e.g. a fade off the tee to hold the tee ball up against the slope and a draw to bound onto the green) is referred to as a switch back hole. While the term didn’t exist in Macdonald’s day, it is no surprise to see him at the forefront of another timeless design principle. "

Didn't Donald Ross design a lot of holes where tee shot and approach shot would be best played in opposite directions?