Have you ever played a golf course that was "too short?"

[PCCraig]

A friend recently remarked to me that he liked a particular golf course in the Chicagoland area, but that he felt it was "too short." He claimed that the course became repetitive after having too many short iron/wedge approaches. While this friend is a good golfer, the same question could be asked of playing a course from a particularly short set of tees. Have you ever played a golf course from a set or two shorter than usual, and felt like you enjoyed the golf course less because of its shorter length?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Pat - We do a lot of booking for golf packages in our area, Painswick is a GCA fave, I try and push it as part of the package but folks dont really want to go there. Its too short is one of their reasons. Probably sub 5600 is too short.

[Garland Bayley]

When I was younger, I played a course running through housing for those 50+ that I felt was too short. Everything was wedge or part wedge approach. As I grew older the course "grew" to be more interesting. Actually, my rockflites started traveling shorter.

[Lou_Duran]

New Zealand GC- charming under 6,000 yards, par 69, relies on heather for defense (shot 81 playing like cr--).

Old Mac from the King Putter tees; enjoyed it more playing a mix of mostly the back tees and a few of the next set, and shot a lower score.

I am a short hitter and when I play short tees the damn bunkers come into play.  I seem to play a 6,800 to 7,000 yard course (at sea level) better because I am a decent longer iron/hybrid wood player, and typically don't reach the bunkers from the longer tees.

I also prefer courses with four or more par 5s.  

[Sean_A]

Yes, it does happen sometimes - in terms of making some of the bunker placement most effective.  Recently at Woking the course played too short.  That said, I don't think the overall yardage was too short on the day, just how the yardage panned out per hole.  I know the 4th is too short for me from the forward tees as its too easy to drive over the bunkers.  

When I played TOC in October the frnt nine was too short, but the back nine was about right.  

I have never played New Zealand where I thought it was too short.  The course plays much longer than its yardage.  In my experience , Lou's experience is normal.  Guys feel like they leave shots out there, but that will happen time and again for them - if they go back.   I expect Lou likes all the par 54s because they make a course play easier than if only one or two are in play.  Thats how Swinley, New Zealand etc play hard, but look easy on the card - cases of false expectations in terms of what yardage means - among my favourite types of courses.  

Ciao

[Jeff Shelman]

Pat,

I think most golfers err on the side of playing a golf course that is too long.

There are certainly people who knock my club (6,405 yards, par 71 from the back tees) as being "too short." While it is certainly too short for a U.S. Open, it is plenty long enough for all people. I like it because there are some decent chances for birdie, but somebody can hit it crooked or onto the wrong parts of the greens and get themselves into a bunch of people.

[JR Potts]

Yes Pat, Shoreacres is too short. - and, given the width of a lot of the holes, too easy.  That said, it's still one of my favorites.

When the strategic bunkering and fairway lines become nothing more than ball eyecandy as it sailes dozens of yards over said lines and hazards, the course becomes too short.

[Pete Lavallee]

I suspected that Shoreacres prompted this question. Just curious, what are the Wardian numbers; course rating, slope and course record?

[JNC Lyon]

No.

Anyone who says a golf course is too short for them is probably trying to compensate for something.

[Michael Blake]

After college, I lived very close to an Alexander Findlay course, and played there alot.
A fun course.  REALLY tested your short game and putting.  Best part about it were the 2 cheesesteaks places around the corner!

The course is MAYBE a par 65 and MAYBE 5000yds.  But I missed not hitting driver.
As Mr. Mucci would say, 'It's a sporty course.'


John,

I look forward to you and Matt W debating 'executive length courses' this Sat night.

[JNC Lyon]

After college, I lived very close to an Alexander Findlay course, and played there alot.
A fun course.  REALLY tested your short game and putting.  Best part about it were the 2 cheesesteaks places around the corner!

The course is MAYBE a par 65 and MAYBE 5000yds.  But I missed not hitting driver.
As Mr. Mucci would say, 'It's a sporty course.'


John,

I look forward to you and Matt W debating 'executive length courses' this Sat night.

Is Paxon Hollow an executive course? Yes.  Is it still a superb golf course? Yes.

[JR Potts]

No.

Anyone who says a golf course is too short for them is probably trying to compensate for something.

Anyone who thinks that a course where the bunkers may not be in play for 80 percent of golfers is blinding himself to reality.

...and I have a lot to compensate for...

[Tom_Doak]

Yes Pat, Shoreacres is too short. - and, given the width of a lot of the holes, too easy.  That said, it's still one of my favorites.

When the strategic bunkering and fairway lines become nothing more than ball eyecandy as it sailes dozens of yards over said lines and hazards, the course becomes too short.

Ryan:

Just because YOUR ball sails over the bunkers easily doesn't mean that's true for others ... including most members of Shoreacres.  You are making the same mistake many people make, by defining architecture around your own game.

[Tom_Doak]

As to the general question, I think the problem is that most courses that are short are also designed to be easy, on the theory that only poor players want to play short courses.  A short course with a great set of greens can be terrific, but sadly, there aren't many of them.  The rest of the courses in that class aren't too short, they're too dull.

[Andy Troeger]

I think for really good players that courses can be too short or just plain too easy to be a lot of fun for them. Unless you're talking about scratch or better golfers, however, I doubt that applies. I've not played any courses that were too short for me from their back set of tees. I enjoy playing shorter courses, because I'm a lousy driver of the ball so avoiding the driver helps my score most of the time.

All that said, I've found I enjoy courses less if I play them too far up from the back tees because I can't interact with the features they way they were designed. Length is generally not my problem, so if I move up 2+ sets of tees I often can hit past doglegs or fly fairway bunkers and it takes a lot of the thought out of certain holes. I'm left with a question of whether there's any benefit to hitting it way down there and taking my chances on making a decent swing with a driver (often times not worth the risk) or hitting hybrids off the tees all day. Its a different kind of strategy, but I find it gets old rather quickly since the hybrid wins out more often than not. It also seems that certain courses have better distance variety from the tips than the regular tees which end of having a large number of average length holes--that can be a bit dull too.

[PCCraig]

Actually, Shoreacres is not the course in question!

[JR Potts]

Yes Pat, Shoreacres is too short. - and, given the width of a lot of the holes, too easy.  That said, it's still one of my favorites.

When the strategic bunkering and fairway lines become nothing more than ball eyecandy as it sailes dozens of yards over said lines and hazards, the course becomes too short.

Ryan:

Just because YOUR ball sails over the bunkers easily doesn't mean that's true for others ... including most members of Shoreacres.  You are making the same mistake many people make, by defining architecture around your own game.

The question was whether I have played a course that is too short....and the answer is yes...it's Shoreacres (I've played others but not many as grea as Shoreacres)  It may not be too short for the golfing universe...but right now at my age, i find it to be too short to properly enjoy.  When the architectural features are mooted by distance, what other conclusion can be reached?

[Tom_Doak]

The question was whether I have played a course that is too short....and the answer is yes...it's Shoreacres (I've played others but not many as grea as Shoreacres)  It may not be too short for the golfing universe...but right now at my age, i find it to be too short to properly enjoy.  When the architectural features are mooted by distance, what other conclusion can be reached?

Well, okay, I agree with you that a player can pronounce a course "too short" for himself.

But I am having trouble reconciling that with your earlier statement that it is one of your favorites.  Apparently, it is not too short for you to enjoy.  So, perhaps we just disagree on what is the ultimate GOAL of playing.

[JR Potts]

My initial goal when teeing it up - to shoot the lowest score possible while trying to hit the best shot I've ever hit every time I swing.  That said, that goal does not undermine my ability to appreciate the setting, the beauty, the history and the aesthetic design....and also my ability to enjoy a round with differing company or when not playing to the best of my ability. 

We may have discussed this, but certain places have that "feel"...the feeling that you are somewhere special...somewhere rooted in history.  Very few places I've played have elicited that "feel"....Shoreacres is one of them....and that "feel" is unmistakably unforgettable.

[Tom_Doak]

I play the game to shoot the lowest score possible while trying to hit the best shot I've ever hit every time I swing.  That said, that goal does not undermine my ability to appreciate the setting, the beauty, the history and the aesthetic design.  And we may have discussed this, but certain places have that "feel"...the feeling that you are somewhere special...somewhere rooted in history.  Very few places I've played have elicited that "feel"....Shoreacres is one of them....and that "feel" is unmistakably unforgettable.

So ... do you think the course would maintain that feel if we moved all the bunkers down to where you hit the ball?

[JR Potts]

I play the game to shoot the lowest score possible while trying to hit the best shot I've ever hit every time I swing.  That said, that goal does not undermine my ability to appreciate the setting, the beauty, the history and the aesthetic design.  And we may have discussed this, but certain places have that "feel"...the feeling that you are somewhere special...somewhere rooted in history.  Very few places I've played have elicited that "feel"....Shoreacres is one of them....and that "feel" is unmistakably unforgettable.

So ... do you think the course would maintain that feel if we moved all the bunkers down to where you hit the ball?

That's an answer outside of my pay grade.  I dont know that answer.

I do know there's a certain charm and it makes me feel good to blast it over old bunkers.  

I also know that it's impossible to make everyone happy.  I also know that I'm not Shoreacres demographic....unfortunately.

[jeffwarne]

I play the game to shoot the lowest score possible while trying to hit the best shot I've ever hit every time I swing.  That said, that goal does not undermine my ability to appreciate the setting, the beauty, the history and the aesthetic design.  And we may have discussed this, but certain places have that "feel"...the feeling that you are somewhere special...somewhere rooted in history.  Very few places I've played have elicited that "feel"....Shoreacres is one of them....and that "feel" is unmistakably unforgettable.

So ... do you think the course would maintain that feel if we moved all the bunkers down to where you hit the ball?

That's an answer outside of my pay grade.  I dont know that answer.

I do know there's a certain charm and it makes me feel good to blast it over old bunkers. 

I also know that it's impossible to make everyone happy.

Well you could play it with a balata ball and a wooden driver.(but that doesn't address the real problem)
Or they could rollback equipment and those who then felt it was then  too long could move up.
but that's too simple

[Mac Plumart]

Some courses are simply ideal for hickory golf.

[Tom_Doak]

The funny thing is that Shoreacres would probably be a beast for hickory golf.

[Bill_McBride]

Pat - We do a lot of booking for golf packages in our area, Painswick is a GCA fave, I try and push it as part of the package but folks dont really want to go there. Its too short is one of their reasons. Probably sub 5600 is too short.

4818 yards, par 67.  I wish I was able to join your Cotswolds Quirk Tour.   

It's not that folks don't want to go because of the short yardage, it's because they don't get it.    "What do you mean 227 yard par 4 opening hole?!".  Sad.