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BCrosby

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2012, 04:18:57 PM »
Garland -

I wish it were just a matter of old fashioned magazine favoritism. It's not.

The problem goes deeper. It's about shoddy analysis and worse commentary. Even when its about courses they cover and like.

Ironcially, I think the mediocrity of that magazine commentary has a lot to do with what makes this site popular. At least here at GCA it is possible to stumble across informative exchanges about gca. That doesn't happen much in the big golf mags. 

Bob
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David Kelly

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2012, 04:20:22 PM »
Although I disagree with most of what Whitten says (I agree mostly about the food and questioning Kidd's 13th hole) at least he is actually critiquing something this time.  His reviews of golf courses are usually uninteresting because he rarely has anything negative to say about even the worst golf courses.

Reminds me of one of his old Architorture columns when with all the crap architecture out there he decided to complain about Coore & Crenshaw bunkers at Talking Stick.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2012, 04:24:32 PM »
I agree with many of his opinions and I disagree with many.  Most importantly, I disagree with the overall conclusion.  

I agree, in general, with his comments regarding the 18th holes at the resort.  I think they all fall flat except for Old Macdonald.  OK, flat isn't the right word for the 18th at Pacific Dunes.  Perhaps a bit over the top.  I view it as the separated at birth twin sibling of the 18th at Yale.  Not quite over and around a mountain, but disaster looming at every point and a bit out of character with the rest of the course.  Nonetheless, the 18th holes at the resort are an underwhelming lot for me.  The same could be said for the 9th holes.  Perhaps just a coincidence that it is all the holes ending a nine since only one of the four courses returns to the clubhouse at the turn, but still interesting (to me at least).

I disagree with his feelings about the 14th at Trails and I hope C&C and Mr. Keiser never cave to the negative pressure on this hole.  Surely they understand that there are as many lovers out there as there are haters.

I agree with his comments about the rooms and the food; I just don't care much about those aspects of the resort and therefore they detract very little from the experience.  I can guarantee I give significantly less weight to food and accommodation than he does based on his assessment.  I have no problem with that.  Many of his readers probably want the finest resort experience if they are going to spend the kind of money you spend at Bandon Dunes.  I just want the finest golf courses!

I don't think that Old Mac suffers due to the lack of a cliff hanging par 3.

I agree that a good portion of the caddies at Bandon appear to be people movers, but generalizing here is very dangerous.  I've had Joe B from this site on my bag (before I knew who he was) and he was outstanding and very attentive to my game.

I can't speak for the world's great golf resorts because I haven't visited them.  But I've been to many of the best in the states and Bandon Dunes tops them all for my money.

I'm sure he was shooting for some light-heartedness and humor mixed in there (or maybe he was hoping people would read it that way and was really taking some shots) but I think the article missed the mark.


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JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2012, 04:26:11 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on January 13, 2012, 04:18:57 PM
Garland -

I wish it were just a matter of old fashioned magazine favoritism. It's not.

The problem goes deeper. It's about shoddy analysis and worse commentary. Even when its about courses they cover and like.

Ironcially, I think the mediocrity of that magazine commentary has a lot to do with what makes this site popular. At least here at GCA it is possible to stumble across informative exchanges about gca. That doesn't happen much in the big golf mags. 

Bob

I think you're absolutely right.

It's easy to sit in this ivory tower and make fun of the great unwashed.But,RW's comments just became the informed opinion of 99% of the US golfing public.

Oh,and happy birthday and enjoy your spaghetti.
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2012, 04:37:51 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on January 13, 2012, 04:05:39 PM
"Other than that, it's just a silly blog post, carrying not much more weight than anything written here."

TD - I'm not sure why you think that. Unlike us laymen slubovnicks, RW is the leading commentator on US gca today. He has the bully pulpit at GD. What he says carries weight.


Bob:  If Ron's opinion is so important, why the heck is it posted on Matty G's blog?
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BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2012, 04:44:48 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on January 13, 2012, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: BCrosby on January 13, 2012, 04:05:39 PM
"Other than that, it's just a silly blog post, carrying not much more weight than anything written here."

TD - I'm not sure why you think that. Unlike us laymen slubovnicks, RW is the leading commentator on US gca today. He has the bully pulpit at GD. What he says carries weight.


Bob:  If Ron's opinion is so important, why the heck is it posted on Matty G's blog?

RW's opinions are always important wherever they appear. It's the nature of his beast.

JME -

Thanks. 

Bob

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Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2012, 04:49:18 PM »

I agree with Tom that the article has little value - although I do think that Ron's opinion carries more weight than say, Kalen's or mine. ;D

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"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2012, 05:05:23 PM »
The last time I was at Bandon was two years ago so this may have changed.

If there is really one thing missing at the facilities, it's a drying room.  We don't really have them here but nearly every club in Scotland has a room in the clubhouse that has a very strong dehumidifier.  Because it rains so much, a drying room would be a very welcome addition by the golfers.

I remember how nearly every player's clubs were in the drying room at the 2009 RC at Renaissance.
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Wade Schueneman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2012, 05:13:29 PM »
I do not understand how finding one flaw on each golf course makes them merely adequate.  Do iphones have no flaws?  Is there a course on this planet that is flawless?  Royal County Down may be my favorite course that I have ever played, and it has a number of flaws (IMHO).  None the less, it would be ridiculous to label it as merely adequate on that score.  It is truly AMAZING. 

My guess is that if RW ever publishes a detailed article on this subject he will feel compelled to do a lot more GCA analysis before coming to his conclusion.
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Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2012, 05:17:55 PM »
Quote from: Steve Salmen on January 13, 2012, 05:05:23 PM
The last time I was at Bandon was two years ago so this may have changed.

If there is really one thing missing at the facilities, it's a drying room.  We don't really have them here but nearly every club in Scotland has a room in the clubhouse that has a very strong dehumidifier.  Because it rains so much, a drying room would be a very welcome addition by the golfers.

I remember how nearly every player's clubs were in the drying room at the 2009 RC at Renaissance.

Funny, they used to have one in the clubhouse downstairs near the bunker bar when they first opened. Totally forgot about it until you mentioned it.

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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2012, 05:25:09 PM »
If after reading Jobs biography, Whitten got the impression that Steve Jobs demanded perfection in everything, then he really needs to go back and read that book again, because that cannot be further from the truth.

When Jobs designed iPhone, he had three goals; make the best on-the-go browsing experience, best music phone, and best camera experience on a phone. Everything else that did not fall into those three categories, was not deemed important and many of those features were severely compromised. Anyone who experienced multiple dropped calls using iPhones know that it is not even an average mobile phone for making calls in the market.

Bandon Dunes is great because they identified what they wanted to be great at - providing the closest experience to golfing in the birthplace of golf in US. They succeeded wildly with that goal. Not having a stopper for a sink is so far from what is important that Steve Jobs would have insisted on people not waste any time on it.

Steve Jobs was a perfectionist. But it was only a perfectionist on things he cared about. And he did not care about every little thing.
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Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2012, 05:29:21 PM »
Bandon has already become more crowded than I'd prefer and now attracts more of a typical resort golfer than it used to.  Imagine if the lodging and food were more of a draw.  They're good enough in my view and perhaps we should root for them to go south in order to deter a certain type of client.  

The sinks?--what the hell is Ron Whitten talking about.  

Steve Jobs doesn't come to mind as a guy with whom you'd have wanted to take a golf trip. 
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Carl Nichols

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2012, 05:32:18 PM »
Maybe he meant to write "strippers."   :P
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Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2012, 05:34:12 PM »
Quote from: Richard Choi on January 13, 2012, 05:25:09 PM

When Jobs designed iPhone, he had three goals; make the best on-the-go browsing experience, best music phone, and best camera experience on a phone. Everything else that did not fall into those three categories, was not deemed important and many of those features were severely compromised. Anyone who experienced multiple dropped calls using iPhones know that it is not even an average mobile phone for making calls in the market.


Rich - Did you watch some Ballmer YouTube rants to get you pumped up for that?   ;)

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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2012, 05:41:16 PM »
Clubs - check
Waterproofs - check
Camera - check
Shoes - check
Shaving Kit - check
Phone - check
IPad - check
Airline Tickets and Boarding Passes - check
Credit Cards - check


"Honey you always seem to forget something really important and I bet your glad I double checked your stuff because I don`t see your drain stopper". Remember your last trip when you said you would never travel without one again and that you would have rather forgotten your putter"?
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2012, 05:43:57 PM »
Probably didn't get comped for his rounds there.
;)
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2012, 05:54:20 PM »
Quote from: Tim Pitner on January 13, 2012, 05:29:21 PM
Bandon has already become more crowded than I'd prefer and now attracts more of a typical resort golfer than it used to.  Imagine if the lodging and food were more of a draw.  They're good enough in my view and perhaps we should root for them to go south in order to deter a certain type of client.  
 

I must say I get uncomfortable when I hear people discuss how good the food is at a resort, and ballyneal and Dismal aren't immune from such a discussion, even/especially amongst GCAers. The problem is such luxuries cost and providing them and their infrastructure drives the cost north for everyone, and seems to fly in the face of get away from it all golf.
I KNOW I'm in the minority on this one, but I picture the ideal golf experience with a big bucket of chili or soup and a sandwich, much like you see in a mountaintop ski lodge. (in New Hampshire, not Deer Valley  ;D)
fancy wine cellars,aged beef, where does it all end?



Perhaps Keiser paid Whitten to blog to drive away the typical resort golfer who is more focused on the amenities than the courses
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 06:02:35 PM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2012, 06:03:24 PM »
One thing I like is the cell towers. A very convenient and often over-looked feature, if we're nitpicking.

Frankly if there is food, shelter, and golf, the quality of golf takes precedence to me.
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2012, 06:04:30 PM »
Quote from: Alex Miller on January 13, 2012, 06:03:24 PM
One thing I like is the cell towers. A very convenient and often over-looked feature, if we're nitpicking.

Frankly if there is food, shelter, and golf, the quality of golf takes precedence to me.

We don't expect a young guy like you to have a refined pallet.
;)
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Peter Pallotta

Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2012, 06:06:50 PM »
It reads as coming from someone who has little left to say, but who has to keep saying something anyway.  

If it was coming from me (or other such slubonvicks - thanks Bob!) it would be understandable/expected.  Coming from RW, it suggests that there may in fact be nothing left to say -- at least not for a while.


Peter
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2012, 06:14:01 PM »
He says he disagrees about Bandon being the #1 golf resort in the world.  Okay...let's run with that...what could be better?  Resort to me implies public with accomodations.

Pinehurst?
Sea Island?
Kiawah?
Kohler?
Pebble Beach?
Is Cape Kidnappers a resort?
Barnbougle?

From what I've seen, Bandon is the best resort.  But I haven't seen the last four on my list.

What might some others be?
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Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2012, 06:14:27 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on January 13, 2012, 06:04:30 PM
Quote from: Alex Miller on January 13, 2012, 06:03:24 PM
One thing I like is the cell towers. A very convenient and often over-looked feature, if we're nitpicking.

Frankly if there is food, shelter, and golf, the quality of golf takes precedence to me.

We don't expect a young guy like you to have a refined pallet.
;)


I suppose the word "refined" is limiting itself, but I still know good food. Let me just say, after hiking 36 holes, I'd rather have quantity over quality to a certain degree. 20oz of Filet Mignon to fill me up seems a bit much.  ;)
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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2012, 06:28:31 PM »
Gotta say I love all the humor on this thread, cheers to that! Love it.

RW certainly has forgotten ( if he ever knew it) that golf is not a game of perfect and channeling Steve Jobs' perfectionism into golf course architecture is incongruent...

The simplistic aspect of how Jobs' designed something is more in line with how golf was meant to be.

thanks
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It's all about the golf!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2012, 06:36:44 PM »
William,

I think you got it right.  The article looks like nothing more than....

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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon Dunes is "Merely Adequate"
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2012, 07:06:34 PM »
Quote from: PPallotta on January 13, 2012, 06:06:50 PM
It reads as coming from someone who has little left to say, but who has to keep saying something anyway.  

If it was coming from me (or other such slubonvicks - thanks Bob!) it would be understandable/expected.  Coming from RW, it suggests that there may in fact be nothing left to say -- at least not for a while.


Peter

Chuck Noll might say it's time for RW to get on with his life's work. Love that guy...
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04
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