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Anthony Gray

What is Prestwick lacking?
« on: January 12, 2012, 08:09:42 PM »
Why don't we see it cracking the rankings. Its links golf. Has unique holes. Great history. Good location. Memorable features. Where's the love?

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 09:35:26 PM »
Nothing
Tim Weiman

Wade Schueneman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 09:50:06 PM »
I think this is similar to the North Berwick question.  Do 6 great and unique holes a top 100 course make?

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 09:58:50 PM »
I hope to find out for myself one of these days. Where do you stay when you visit?

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 10:05:27 PM »
Prestwick is a Hoot!

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 10:29:32 PM »
I hope to find out for myself one of these days. Where do you stay when you visit?

I stay at the Golf View Hotel across the street.  Nice place.

Perhaps there are too many short par 4s.  Especially at the end of the round.  A fairly long hitter could drive 4 or the last 5 greens.

Jackson C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 10:49:52 PM »
I think this is similar to the North Berwick question.  Do 6 great and unique holes a top 100 course make?

The two parts of North Berwick are more seamless.  At Prestwick you know when you've ventured off the land of the original course.
North Berwick is quirky.  Prestwick has many blind shots.  Many can accept quirk, but the many completely blind shots probably hurts Prestwick.
"The secrets that golf reveals to the game's best are secrets those players must discover for themselves."
Christy O'Connor, Sr. (1998)

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 11:00:37 PM »
the easy hole at prestwick are easy... the hard holes are hard...

weird holes, blind shots is a hard sell for rankers

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 09:22:54 AM »
Prestwick lacks nothing and it should be included in the Rota! 

I thought about including Prestwick in the "can a course be great with some un-great holes" thread, because the middle holes aren't that unique or interesting, but I'll go ahead and generously call them "breather" holes. 

Lodging: we base-camped at Turnberry and made the short 30 min drive up to Prestwick and Troon Championship, easy-peasy. 

Melvyn Morrow

Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 09:27:28 AM »


Perhaps land to allow it back to holding "The Open", although  I still feel its great as it is and should be allowed to host The Open again.

Melvyn

Tim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 10:40:04 AM »
A perfect example of why I have no use for Rankings.  I know what I like and feel I have a pretty good understanding of design, so I don't need someone else to tell me what is good and what isn't.
Coasting is a downhill process

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 10:49:08 AM »
Raters who care about something other than fairness and what recent tournaments the course has held.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 11:00:42 AM »
Golf has just moved on  modern requirements of length and space, blindness and Prestwick has fixed itself as being in the past
The past is its charm ofcourse.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 11:08:20 AM »
Adrian,

What are the modern requirement for blindness?
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bill McKinley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 11:10:10 AM »
How does Prestwick comapre with Royal Troon?  I have played Royal Troon and I liked it, but didn't love it.  From what I've heard and read, it appers that I would like Prestwick better.

And, this is slightly off topic though, is the fact that Prestwick does not host the Open Championship and Troon does make the big difference in the almighty rankings?
2016 Highlights:  Streamsong Blue (3/17); Streamsong Red (3/17); Charles River Club (5/16); The Country Club - Brookline (5/17); Myopia Hunt Club (5/17); Fishers Island Club (5/18); Aronomink GC (10/16); Pine Valley GC (10/17); Somerset Hills CC (10/18)

Anthony Gray

Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 11:12:04 AM »

  North Berwick, Cruden Bay and Prestwick are examples of what modern design shouid be.

  Anthony


Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 11:21:43 AM »
North Berwick, Cruden Bay and Prestwick are EXACTLY not what modern golf design should be.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 11:23:56 AM »
How does Prestwick comapre with Royal Troon?

Troon’s best and most interesting holes are the middle six, starting with 7 and are great.  I didn’t originally like the starters – bland, straightaway driving holes but then I noticed that the tee boxes we played were angled against the fairway creating mini-doglegs and/or capes, so if you wanted to have a successful approach you needed to drive the ball accurately, not indifferently, and I like that flexibility. 

But Prestwick is all-world!  In the “split ten rounds”  game I would split them 7-3 in favor of Prestwick, and if Troon didn’t host Opens I would probably visit even less. 

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2012, 11:28:13 AM »
How does Prestwick comapre with Royal Troon?  I have played Royal Troon and I liked it, but didn't love it.  From what I've heard and read, it appers that I would like Prestwick better.

And, this is slightly off topic though, is the fact that Prestwick does not host the Open Championship and Troon does make the big difference in the almighty rankings?
Prestwick is too short to stage an Open  and it is too tight in too many places to restrict crowds those are the prime reasons. I suspect that the 5th being blind wont be loved and that the 12th and 15th green would be considered unfair. What we love on here is still the minor opinion. The majority would have Troon above Prestwick in rankings just because it ticks the championship boxes of length space and fairness.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2012, 11:29:47 AM »
Adrian,

What are the modern requirement for blindness?
Jud - The answer is none.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2012, 11:30:56 AM »
I hope to find out for myself one of these days. Where do you stay when you visit?

The Sandhill House is a fantastic B&B. It overlooks Royal Troon and is  about 0.5 mi from the north end of Prestwiick on foot but about a 3 mille circuitous drive to the Prestwick club house. Of course everyone walks ;D   Joking aside, Sandhill House is one of my favorite places to stay in the U.K.

http://www.sandhillhouse.com/

Melvyn Morrow

Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 12:07:30 PM »
“North Berwick, Cruden Bay and Prestwick are examples of what modern design should be” absolutely

“North Berwick, Cruden Bay and Prestwick are EXACTLY not what modern golf design should be.”
Sorry Adrian I cannot agree. Modern designers have either forgotten the art of design or are forcing forward with fake and poor design. Tell me what individual could even consider that the content of the follow photo should find itself on to a golf course.  


By producing courses like the ones mentioned above might bring more back to the game rather than producing courses that born out of the mentality that wins the Turner prize. It’s might also dawn on owners to take more care in site selection, which IMHO is still at the heart of good design. Modern developers in this country have not learnt from past errors hence why do we still have so many housing estates upon unsuitable land (flood plains with high water table).

Melvyn


As for Troon, never been a course I liked, so I would take Prestwich and/or Prestwick St Nicholas everytime - but it is all about what one likes.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 12:09:57 PM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 12:18:14 PM »
Melvyn you have distorted the argument by posting pictures like that.

The great things that we like on this site are often unusual, unusual in my mind equals the word quirk. No modern design would include playing over the corner of a hotel or sheds, or building a green in a bath tub, drivin blind over a hill, a wal infront of the green, greens that radically fall the wrong way, pits, roads, crossing holes, double greens, fairways abutting other others. They impact on common sense and in many cases impeed our agronomy rules or health and safety rules. The very things that are loved are often things you cant do in 2012, you cant play holes back into a town with walkers and shops a few yards off the fairway... SO NO  its not the way you can look to design modern courses.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Melvyn Morrow

Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2012, 12:53:46 PM »

Adrian

Why not where is the law that states it is not allowed - its golf. It after all has precedence, it’s not new and it works and works well too IMHO

As for the photo, that shows what is in the mind of the modern designers and is so important - is this what golfer really want Disneyland gimmicks that proves zero.

Melvyn

Anthony Gray

Re: What is Prestwick lacking?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2012, 01:56:36 PM »
Melvyn you have distorted the argument by posting pictures like that.

The great things that we like on this site are often unusual, unusual in my mind equals the word quirk. No modern design would include playing over the corner of a hotel or sheds, or building a green in a bath tub, drivin blind over a hill, a wal infront of the green, greens that radically fall the wrong way, pits, roads, crossing holes, double greens, fairways abutting other others. They impact on common sense and in many cases impeed our agronomy rules or health and safety rules. The very things that are loved are often things you cant do in 2012, you cant play holes back into a town with walkers and shops a few yards off the fairway... SO NO  its not the way you can look to design modern courses.

  Why is The Alps copied?

 Anthony


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