[John Shimony]

While looking at Google maps aerial view of Pine Valley I took an interest in the ten or so short holes they have on the nortwestern portion of the property.  Has anyone played them?  What are your impressions.  Many holes seem to lack designated teeing ground.  Tee it where you wish, I assume.  Neat.

[Scott Warren]

John,

Most of the holes replicate shots from the main course. Cool little facility, designed by Fazio, I believe.

[Sam Morrow]

John,

Most of the holes replicate shots from the main course. Cool little facility, designed by Fazio, I believe.

It's fairly new isn't it?

[Scott Warren]

Relatively new, Sam. I believe it dates from the early 90s.

[Sam Morrow]

Relatively new, Sam. I believe it dates from the early 90s.

I was thinking within the last 15-20 years.

[PCCraig]

John,

Most of the holes replicate shots from the main course. Cool little facility, designed by Fazio, I believe.

Scott's right on. The course is supposed to replicate many of the approach shots on the big course, which it does fairly well. I think Fazio did it the way he did as a way to not have to "compete" with the main course. The short course is used a bunch as a place to go out in the afternoon or evening to hit a few shots, have a drink, gamble, etc... as well as the occasional practice session. 

[John Shimony]

The short hole that bends to the left around a bunker made me think that these holes were something different that a traditional short course.  Really neat.  I could could spend days out there.

[Bob_Huntley]

The short course at Pine Valley is an absolute gem, almost a duplicate of some of the holes on the big course. It is a pity it cannot be copied elsewhere.

Bob

[Greg Holland]

It is really cool -- very close duplicates of the second shots on a lot of the holes.  Having played it first, I hoped that it would take away some of the jitters on the real deal.  In my case, I can't say that it did -- at least not every time, but it was a great way to start the day there and familiarize yourself with some of the shots ahead of you.  I thought it was a really cool course. 

[Mark Chaplin]

John some holes are played as traditional par 3s with proper tees. The ones that do not have a proper tee have tee boxes but you do not use a tee peg, just drop the ball and hit it.

The par 3 course eases congestion on the main course and is ideal on arrival and/or departure day.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Didnt Mr Ernie Ransom play a big rollin this? In fact, does he get some design credit with Fazio? I know there is something in fazio's book about how it all came about.

[Mark Chaplin]

Bob I couldn't agree more, I was playing at Hankley Common recently a delightful heathland course with around 600 acres of spare land. One of my mates really wants to see another 9 holes to reduce pressure on the tee at busy times. For me a well designed and properly maintained 9 hole short course would be fantastic. Surely such courses would add another option for members who wish to play a proper game but only have a spare hour or two.   

[Frank Sullivan]

John,

Most of the holes replicate shots from the main course. Cool little facility, designed by Fazio, I believe.

Anyone have pictures?

[ChipOat]

Bob Huntley said it best.

You have no idea how good it is until you play it.

Like "the big course", every single hole would be the best on just about any other course in the world.

IMO several of the holes even better than the one on "the big course" that they were built to copy/emulate.

All par 3's except one of them can be played as a short par 4, as well.

They now use it for the match play in the bottom two flights of the Member-Guest.  Also, it is perfect for all the other uses already mentioned on this thread.

With all due respect to ANGC and Friar's Head, nothing else even comes close.  It's that good.

Advertised at the club as a "Fazio and Ransome design" (Ernie Ransome was the club's major domo at the time), I don't know how much Ernie did other than give instructions to TF.  On the other hand, ER was a legitimate scratch player in his day, so he may have had more of a hand in it than people assume.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

John,

Most of the holes replicate shots from the main course. Cool little facility, designed by Fazio, I believe.

Anyone have pictures?

Heres a link to some I posted a while back from my last summer working there - it hasn't changed much since
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42663.msg915873.html#msg915873

Has anyone played the short course and have photos they can post??

I didn't realize these are that old.... but it hasn't changed much since then, the zoysia hadn't fully come out of dormancy when I took these.

SC1 copy of 10


SC2 copy of 14


SC3 copy of 16


SC3 closer to the green


SC4 original design


SC5 copy of 15 and the only par 4 on the SC (tee shot)


SC5 second shot


SC6 copy of 3


SC7 copy of 13


SC8 copy of 17


SC9 original design The Philly skyline is on the horizon


SC10 copy of 2

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Didnt Mr Ernie Ransom play a big rollin this? In fact, does he get some design credit with Fazio? I know there is something in fazio's book about how it all came about.

Mr Ransome is credited along with Fazio, I'm not sure how much he was involved with the actual design but I believe he was a major force in the concept and getting it done

Each hole has a set of tee markers set to ensure the yardages are different and if groups want to play each other they know where to hit from. Of course you can just drop and play from where-ever if you're just out practicing

[Scott Warren]

The picture of #7 on the short course gives an idea of how 13 on the main course could be improved with some tree clearing left of the green.

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott if as I suspect you are going back in Sept see if Steve will take you around the Short Course, it's great fun.

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