[Garland Bayley]

Bob,

Mssr. Cotton may think putting for birdies is fun. How does he explain that the average handicap is probably north of 18, and that half of all golfers play their entire rounds without putting for birdies. Hard to imagine they are spending their money to have no fun.

I go back to my previous question. How do new golfers get into the game if the only people they meet on the course are those who adopt Mssr. Cotton's idea of fun?

Pete,

Strategy is for the better players. Better than half of all golfers cannot execute on the strategies they would like to. How do new golfers get into the game if the only people they meet on the course adopt your idea of fun?

Jeff,

Please define line of charm.

[Steve Strasheim]

By the way, PGA America is pushing for this with their "Tee it forward" program:

http://www.playgolfamerica.com/index.cfm?action=teeitforward

[Mark Mammel]

David-
As I read this thread, there's something ion what Niall says that rings true. Of course the beer plays a role- if only I could get a decent pint of bitter at my club here in the states!!! But as you know well, in the UK, you step up to the yellow member boxes and play away at whatever yardage the committee has decreed- almost never what the card says. As the starter at Dornoch said to a player wanting to play the medal tees, "Aye, you'll find there's plenty of goff from the yellow boxes!" The game is usually match play or Stableford points, and totals are not very relevant. It's true, the handicap does tend to move up as time takes its inevitable toll- but how much more one appreciates the pars and birdies (uncommon as they become!)
far & sure.

[Duncan Cheslett]

For a UK golfer, this is a very strange thread to read.

I was thinking just that.

In the UK, everyone plays from the same tee. In a competition, it will usually be the white (back) tee, in everyday play it will be the yellow (middle) tee. Ladies and juniors play from the red (forward) tee.

What happens in the USA in a club competition? Does everyone choose which tee to play off? Even in a social fourball I can't see how it would work with people playing from different tees.

Surely the handicap system is all that is needed to reflect declining ability as one gets older...

[Jud_T]

Whenever I can do so without having to douche.

[Phil Benedict]

For a UK golfer, this is a very strange thread to read. The notion that you move up a tee because you can't hit it as far seems positively alien. Over here in the UK the course is the course and you get on with it. If over time you lose distance and can't score as low, well then your handicap goes up ! Amazing that, isn't it.

...

I'm with you Niall. I just don't get it. Is golf participation going down because when people go to the golf course all they run into are a bunch of people obsessed with reaching greens in regulation and score? The beginner has little chance of reaching greens in regulation and scoring well, so what good does it do for him to play with these guys?

What happened to hitting a golf ball is fun?

For me moving up brings strategy back into the game, and this is means more fun

Pete,

I was a fairly long hitter for my handicap and sometimes found that moving back added strategy by bringing hazards into play off the tee, but made it less fun because it was too hard at the longer tees.  One course I played featured a lot of centerline bunkers which I could carry from the 6,600 yard tees, but were very much in play from the 7,000-yard tees.  The one time I tried the 7,000-yard tees driver strategy was more compelling because I had to think about the bunkers, but the overall difficulty of the course from those tees took all the fun out of it.

Sometimes  it's more fun to tee it high and let it fly!

[Bob_Huntley]

I've also heard of college coaches having their teams play practice rounds from the forward tees. The theory is that the players will become more accustomed to shooting low scores, and then won't be as scared of going low in an event (ie, being five-under for the day isn't something that will occupy their minds because they'll be used to the feeling, having done it in practice rounds.)

JL,

I did this with some high school players  and they all benefited from the practice. It is practically the same as getting young children to hit a rubber ball, move onto a tennis ball and then the real thing. Confidence in golf is everything; commit to the shot at hand and nothing but good can happen. (Provided always that you have picked the right tees.)


Garland ,

I doubt anyone new trying to get into the game would be playing without the "fun factor' in mind. Quite frankly some of the younger players of my acquaintance could well do with playing tees of a different length.




Bob

[Anthony Gray]

Phil,
When it's more slog than fun it's time to move forward. 

As you say, reluctance to move up is a mix of ego and mortality, but resistance is futile.     

  This is your answer.

[Tim Gavrich]

Duncan--

American golfers are able to account for yardage differences by factoring the difference in course rating into the doling-out of strokes in their match.  So if I'm scratch and play from tees with a 74 rating and my father is a 10 who plays from tees with a rating of 70, then I'm giving him three a side.  The rather limited experience I have playing golf in the UK makes it seem to me that the SSS replaced the idea of both rating and slope, and is less scientifically calculated.

To be honest, I think it's best to consider BOTH the rating and slope of your chosen tees relative to your handicap AND your driving distance, not just the latter.  This is a mistake that causes a whole lot of golfers to select tees that are far too difficult.  This happens at Pawleys Plantation all the time.  The golf course proves to me that 20-handicappers needn't play from more than 5,700 yards or so and that 6,500 yards is almost definitely too much golf course for anyone with a handicap higher than 8 or so.  The biggest head-scratcher is when I see a scorecard for a course and there are two sets of tees longer than 7,000 yards, a 6,600-yard set, and a 5,600 yard set.

Is it possible to give the slope and rating of an individual hole?  This would make it possible for players to play from all different tees over the course of the round and still post a legitimate score (which, by the way, may be the single biggest impediment against people having the maximum amount of fun playing golf).

[Garland Bayley]

...
Is it possible to give the slope and rating of an individual hole?  This would make it possible for players to play from all different tees over the course of the round and still post a legitimate score (which, by the way, may be the single biggest impediment against people having the maximum amount of fun playing golf).

Although it may be possible, it is not necessary. If you play one set of tees more than the others, use their rating and slope. Then calculate the difference in yardage that you played from the yardage for those tees. The USGA gives a table to adjust a rating given a yardage difference that you played.

[David_Tepper]

Many clubs are now offering "combo tees," where you play the 9 highest handicap holes from the whites and the 9 lowest handicap holes from the blues or the 9 highest from the whites and the 9 lowest from the reds/greens.

The Olympic Club has gotten ratings & slopes for both of their courses for both sets of "combo" tees. It is a nice way for one's golf game to age gracefully.    

[Bill_McBride]

Whenever I can do so without having to douche.

Please conjugate the verb "to douche."

[Joel Zuckerman]

Posted on: Today at 03:05:17 PMPosted by: P. Craig  

I would say that if an average 10+ handicapper has more than 3 approaches on par-4's that require more than a 5-iron they should move up a set of tees. In fact, 99% of golfers could stand to move up in order to make the game easier and more fun.

I disagree.  My index is generally in the 7 to 8 range, and not only do I have more than 3 approaches per round with a club longer than a 5-iron, I don't even have a 5-iron!  

I figure if I'm going to shoot 90, I at least want to do so from the blues, not whites, and the fact that my golf bag features more headcovers than a Synagogue during the High Holidays doesn't bother me a bit.  (In fact, I had the 3-wood re-gripped just yesterday..no kidding!)

To me the game is a challenge, I prefer to play from 6,500 yards, and if that means hybrids, 5-woods, etc into many/most par-4s, that's OK.  I'm out there hoping to break 80, if things go south quickly, hoping to break 90, if in the UK hoping to break 100, and whacking the 3-wood is just part of the fun...so is getting it up-and-in for par!  Just my opinion, anyway...

[Niall C]

Joel

I read that post of Pats as well and felt the same way you did. Personally speaking I've generally got more chance of hitting the green with a fairway wood than I have with my 5 iron which maybe says something about my golf ! The point however that you make so succinctly is that the game is meant to be a challenge. Personally speaking I relish that challenge. That was what I was getting at. Again personally speaking, I get more satisfaction out of achieving a hard par than I do an easy birdie, and if I have to scramble to get that par so much the better.

Brian

I'm not sure your right that there's no difference in golfing cultures between the UK and US as you state. I don't say that in an attempt to score points but it does seem to me that in the US their is more concern about fairness and regulation golf. In contrast, links golf tends to be the standard bearer for golf in the UK where the notion of fairness and regulation can seem ridiculous when you play a hole into a howling wind one day and then with a gentle breeze behind the next. That's why I think UK courses tend to have flanking hazards as opposed to carries, to allow for the variances in the conditions.

A while back I started a thread relaying my experiences playing a modern american owned and designed links located in Scotland where I had played a round of golf in 30 mile an hour winds. On all the holes down wind the tee was right at the back and on all the holes into the wind the tees were moved right to the front. Thats a practice you simply wouldn't see at a traditional members course in the UK.


Niall

[Chris Johnston]

After deploying 3 hybrids, the yellow ball, and belly putter, it may be time for me to seiously consider a move to the shorter set of tees.

[Bill_McBride]

After deploying 3 hybrids, the yellow ball, and belly putter, it may be time for me to seiously consider a move to the shorter set of tees.

What's the yellow ball have to do with it?   

[Garland Bayley]

After deploying 3 hybrids, the yellow ball, and belly putter, it may be time for me to seiously consider a move to the shorter set of tees.

What's the yellow ball have to do with it?   

For me it would be old man eyes. Just a symptom of the real malady, getting old.

[Chris Johnston]

Yup on the bad eyesight.

[Mike Hendren]

How clean is the face of your 8-iron?

Bogey

[Steve Lang]

  We like a game of all start from forward tees... par or better move back a tee, bogey or worse move up a tee.. 

[William_G]

we have played a red, white blue tournament over three days...lots of fun as the greens and surrounds is where scoring occurs anyway... the shorter tees are more fun and not as bruising for everyone

[Scott Stearns]

I moved up this fall when it got so cold that the back tees weren't fun.

I will also say that this talk of "screwing up the course by playing too far back" is a little bit of nonsense, at least on courses that have little in the way of penal hazards and/or water.

Out at Bethpage i got paired up with three 15 handicappers who played it all the way back...and in doing so took all the fairway hazards out of play.  they were slow--never ready to play when it was their turn--but they would have been slow from the whites too.

Meanwhile by playing the whites i was dodging bunkers all day--fun and strategically challenging but i did some raking the wrong-tee guys never sniffed. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think you know when you need to move up. I remember a few years ago in the State Am hitting driver and rescues to par 4's the college kids were hitting irons or fairway metals and short irons too. I knew I could continue to play the tips but it was a workout and not where my game was. I have noticed in my recovery mode now that distance is missing. so i have no doubt I will need to consider moving up to the regular mens. Such is life. You can play the tips but it is a long day at the salt mines.

[Terry Lavin]

I gradually moved from blue to white 6500 yds) after realizing the par 3s were WAY too hard, along with a couple par 4s.

[Sean_A]

What I take Niall to be saying is that most folks in the UK are already playing from forward tees.  Many choose not not to move up to what are generally well forward senior/junior tees (maybe because they are often "after thought" tees which often require long walks to reach) until very late in life if at all.  In other words, the courses are not long and many older folks choose not to play on days when it will play hard.  Its not at all unheard of for guys to move clubs in favour of flatter/shorter courses when they get older.

Ciao

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