Is North Berwick a Top 100 course?

[Wade Schueneman]

What are the standout holes?  I grant 2, and 13-16, but that is it from my view.  1,4 and 9 are fun, but I would certainly not call them great.  Perhaps I missed what some people see in number 9. 

I doubt it is a top 100 golf experience.
However, if I were going to limit myself to playing/studying only 100 courses for the rest of my life, I agree that NB would have to be on the list because of the the uniqueness of its best holes.

[jeffwarne]

What are the standout holes?  I grant 2, and 13-16, but that is it from my view.  1,4 and 9 are fun, but I would certainly not call them great.  Perhaps I missed what some people see in number 9. 

I doubt it is a top 100 golf experience.
However, if I were going to limit myself to playing/studying only 100 courses for the rest of my life, I agree that NB would have to be on the list because of the the uniqueness of its best

Wade, respectfully, what is a" top 100 golf experience?"

I'll go first
North Berwick

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its' parts

[JNC Lyon]

What are the standout holes?  I grant 2, and 13-16, but that is it from my view.  1,4 and 9 are fun, but I would certainly not call them great.  Perhaps I missed what some people see in number 9. 

I doubt it is a top 100 golf experience.
However, if I were going to limit myself to playing/studying only 100 courses for the rest of my life, I agree that NB would have to be on the list because of the the uniqueness of its best

Wade, respectfully, what is a" top 100 golf experience?"

I'll go first
North Berwick

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its' parts

I think the parts are pretty damn good at North Berwick as well.  Every hole brings something different to the table in my view.  That 1 and 18 shared fairway is a classic, and they are both wonderfully weird holes.  It's insanely fun to finish on a 275-yard par four, which is a much more exciting finish than a slogging long four, especially with the car park on the right side. 

8 is a little bland, but the cross bunkering and the giant green make it distinctive.  However, the other two fives, 9 and 11, are absurdly good.  The 9th has the perfectly done centerline bunker, with plenty of reward for driving on the boundary side of the fairway.  11 uses the dune perfectly, with the golf having to get his second shot as far left as possible for a reasonable chance at a four.

13-16 is the run people seem to pick out, but let's try 12 on for size.  It's an unassuming midrange four, but the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg are perfectly placed, beckoning to be challenged for the best angle into the green.  The green?  The second wildest on the course, of course. 

Oh, and the 3rd?  Pretty forgettable.  Except for the green on the other side of the wall.

[jeffwarne]

What are the standout holes?  I grant 2, and 13-16, but that is it from my view.  1,4 and 9 are fun, but I would certainly not call them great.  Perhaps I missed what some people see in number 9. 

I doubt it is a top 100 golf experience.
However, if I were going to limit myself to playing/studying only 100 courses for the rest of my life, I agree that NB would have to be on the list because of the the uniqueness of its best

Wade, respectfully, what is a" top 100 golf experience?"

I'll go first
North Berwick

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its' parts

I think the parts are pretty damn good at North Berwick as well.  Every hole brings something different to the table in my view.  That 1 and 18 shared fairway is a classic, and they are both wonderfully weird holes.  It's insanely fun to finish on a 275-yard par four, which is a much more exciting finish than a slogging long four, especially with the car park on the right side. 

8 is a little bland, but the cross bunkering and the giant green make it distinctive.  However, the other two fives, 9 and 11, are absurdly good.  The 9th has the perfectly done centerline bunker, with plenty of reward for driving on the boundary side of the fairway.  11 uses the dune perfectly, with the golf having to get his second shot as far left as possible for a reasonable chance at a four.

13-16 is the run people seem to pick out, but let's try 12 on for size.  It's an unassuming midrange four, but the bunkers on the inside of the dogleg are perfectly placed, beckoning to be challenged for the best angle into the green.  The green?  The second wildest on the course, of course. 

Oh, and the 3rd?  Pretty forgettable.  Except for the green on the other side of the wall.

JNC,
Great post the parts are great, and the sum is greater

I still don't see how any course can be considered great that is not fun to play

[Bill_McBride]

What are the standout holes?  I grant 2, and 13-16, but that is it from my view.  1,4 and 9 are fun, but I would certainly not call them great.  Perhaps I missed what some people see in number 9. 

I doubt it is a top 100 golf experience.
However, if I were going to limit myself to playing/studying only 100 courses for the rest of my life, I agree that NB would have to be on the list because of the the uniqueness of its best

Wade, respectfully, what is a" top 100 golf experience?"

I'll go first
North Berwick

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its' parts

Oh, and the 3rd?  Pretty forgettable.  Except for the green on the other side of the wall.

LOL.  Last time I played there, 3 of our foursome hit the wall with our second shots!

[Andy Shulman]

As others have stated, the fun factor easily puts it in any Top 100.  And, FWIW, former Golf Magazine editor George Peper's 2003 book, "The 500 World's Greatest Golf Holes" includes a list of the best first hole, best second hole, etc. IN THE WORLD and TWO of the holes on that list - #s 2 and 14 - are from NB.  That convinced me that I had to see it and I'm glad I did.

[Simon Holt]

Strange that Peper has No. 7, 9 and 15 in his top 500 holes too.

There are far better 4s than 7.  11 to be is a much better par 5 than 9, and 15, well ok, I will let him have that one.

12 is my favourite hole on the course.  A drive that can bite more often than you think, cool run up approach (that has been hindered slightly by the adding of a bunker about 8 years ago) and a cool green site nestled close to the beach.

As John intimates, this is the most under-rated green on the course.  Lots of movement and often 3 putted.....and what a view down to Fidra.  Best view in golf for me.

Simon

[Andy Shulman]

I stand corrected.  Of course it's actually the 15th (Redan) - not the 14th - that's in Peper's Top 18.

[Ross Tuddenham]

As John intimates, this is the most under-rated green on the course.  Lots of movement and often 3 putted.....and what a view down to Fidra.  Best view in golf for me.

Simon

I have to agree that the view down the beach and big dune is truly amazing.  I once played late in the evening as the sun was starting to set, and I am not normally the sentimental type, but would happily have taken a break from the golf just to soak that moment up a little more. 

Oh, and sadly I have three putted 12.

A point on 18, and i have been accused of being lazy, but having the chance to just really let go with the driver (or whatever club the conditions dictate) really appeals to me.  You are just finishing a great round with a tough 17th so why spoil it?  Has anyone ever finished a round at North Berwick and thought "if only 18 was a little better"?

[Simon Holt]

Hey Ross- I am glad you share my feelings on 12.

I am not really sure what you mean in your last sentence.  Do you like 18 or not like 18?

[Ross Tuddenham]

I like it, just cant imagine anyone walking off the course and worrying that 18 was not challenging enough and therefore the course as a whole was not as good as it could have been.  You have just had a great round and are presented with the chance to rip it and go for an eagle, or at least feel like that is possible if the conditions are right.

[Anthony Gray]

What are the standout holes?  I grant 2, and 13-16, but that is it from my view.  1,4 and 9 are fun, but I would certainly not call them great.  Perhaps I missed what some people see in number 9. 

I doubt it is a top 100 golf experience.
However, if I were going to limit myself to playing/studying only 100 courses for the rest of my life, I agree that NB would have to be on the list because of the the uniqueness of its best

Wade, respectfully, what is a" top 100 golf experience?".                               I'll go 2nd. cruden Bay


I'll go first Cruden Bay. north Berwick.
North Berwick

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its' parts

[Simon Holt]

I like 18 too.  I used to think 1 and 18 were weak but then I grew up and realised what they are all about.

18 is a great matchplay hole.  Sooooo many good golfers blow it out of bounds when under pressure.  Even if you drive the green you are usually left with a huge putt which is not a guaranteed birdie even though the green is pretty flat on the whole.

With regard to 2s.  I have had 4...ever....in well over 1000 rounds, and drive the green most times I play.  It is a very cool way to end a round, and the best way to win a tight match. 

My foursomes partner and I were once 2 down with 3 to play and went birdie, birdie, eagle to win 1 up.  He hit a 3 wood to 4 feet at 18.  It was the best.

[jeffwarne]

I like 18 too.  I used to think 1 and 18 were weak but then I grew up and realised what they are all about.

18 is a great matchplay hole.  Sooooo many good golfers blow it out of bounds when under pressure.  Even if you drive the green you are usually left with a huge putt which is not a guaranteed birdie even though the green is pretty flat on the whole.

With regard to 2s.  I have had 4...ever....in well over 1000 rounds, and drive the green most times I play.  It is a very cool way to end a round, and the best way to win a tight match. 

My foursomes partner and I were once 2 down with 3 to play and went birdie, birdie, eagle to win 1 up.  He hit a 3 wood to 4 feet at 18.  It was the best.

Simon

Great post.

18 would be ruined at many places made a par 3, and soon it'd be 160 yards from the forward tee.
Keeping it as a par 4 , and maintaining the yardage allows a player to seperate themselves, which is really what you want on a finishiing hole.
I've been in that parking lot....

[Brian Freeman]

Absolutely, without question.  The course stands on its own, but one could argue it deserves a spot simply for some of the template holes it has inspired at other courses.

Brian, which hole beyond the Redan do you see as a template?

I immediately think of 16 (the green), plus aspects of other holes - #2 as a risk/reward forced carry over the sea wall - into the wind, a truly great strategic driving hole that is one of the first built of its kind I think of.  Plus lots of subtle things as well, the angles and cross-hazards all over the course.  By template I don't mean it's exactly copied, I mean it has inspired - NB has contributed tons to strategic architecture.  When I think of a strategic golf course, this is the first one I think of.

[Ulrich Mayring]

It's either a Top 20 or not in the Top 100 at all, depending on what your criteria for Top 100 are. The only thing that makes no sense to me at all is to put it at #80 or #90.

At least I cannot think of any criteria that would put 90 courses ahead of it and the rest of the world behind it.

Ulrich

[Bill_McBride]

I like 18 too.  I used to think 1 and 18 were weak but then I grew up and realised what they are all about.

18 is a great matchplay hole.  Sooooo many good golfers blow it out of bounds when under pressure.  Even if you drive the green you are usually left with a huge putt which is not a guaranteed birdie even though the green is pretty flat on the whole.

With regard to 2s.  I have had 4...ever....in well over 1000 rounds, and drive the green most times I play.  It is a very cool way to end a round, and the best way to win a tight match. 

My foursomes partner and I were once 2 down with 3 to play and went birdie, birdie, eagle to win 1 up.  He hit a 3 wood to 4 feet at 18.  It was the best.

Simon

Great post.

18 would be ruined at many places made a par 3, and soon it'd be 160 yards from the forward tee.
Keeping it as a par 4 , and maintaining the yardage allows a player to seperate themselves, which is really what you want on a finishiing hole.
I've been in that parking lot....

Am I the only one who has ever hit a big hook off the 18th tee and wound up in that sunken pit behind the pro shop?

[Jackson C]

I like 18 too.  I used to think 1 and 18 were weak but then I grew up and realised what they are all about.

18 is a great matchplay hole.  Sooooo many good golfers blow it out of bounds when under pressure.  Even if you drive the green you are usually left with a huge putt which is not a guaranteed birdie even though the green is pretty flat on the whole.

With regard to 2s.  I have had 4...ever....in well over 1000 rounds, and drive the green most times I play.  It is a very cool way to end a round, and the best way to win a tight match. 

My foursomes partner and I were once 2 down with 3 to play and went birdie, birdie, eagle to win 1 up.  He hit a 3 wood to 4 feet at 18.  It was the best.

Simon

Great post.

18 would be ruined at many places made a par 3, and soon it'd be 160 yards from the forward tee.
Keeping it as a par 4 , and maintaining the yardage allows a player to seperate themselves, which is really what you want on a finishiing hole.
I've been in that parking lot....

Am I the only one who has ever hit a big hook off the 18th tee and wound up in that sunken pit behind the pro shop?

Yes, you probably are or the only person that would admit to such a thing.
The parking lot is a magnet and the only story worth telling. 

[Kevin Pallier]

A better question for mine - is it a Top50 course ?

I would say - yes.

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