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Mike_Young

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MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« on: January 06, 2012, 11:02:18 PM »
After much consternation and after reading the other Proclamtion post...MYDGOLF has issued a public golf proclamation.    It's only natural, green  and environmentally sensitive since it is all we have ever done.  As we all know putting Mercedes on Honda car lots in small American towns and expecting to sell them will not work.  The same applies to golf.  The concept of thinking a signature designer has a place in regional public golf is no different than the mindset that allows "Johnny Cochran Law Office" franchises to exist throughout the U.S.  It works the same way. ;) ;) ;D



MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION
We acknowledge that the global  golf organizations, associations, and governing bodies, as well as many of the signature golf architecture firms worldwide have finally come to acknowledge that they will need to accept public course work if they are to remain in the golf design business in the future.  Most have rarely worked to promote public access to affordable, high-quality golf.   Environmentally responsible golf is of little concern except for use in marketing.  We acknowledge that the associations and organizations and many architects have only recently advised using less expensive construction methods they condemned in years past.  In an effort to cut through the bullshit that is hindering the fostering of  the communal spirit of the game we offer the following declaration to golfers and prospective golfers of every nation:

We aspire to:
1. Advise  municipalities and other government entities of the pitfalls involved in creating golf courses for their citizens that are over designed and constructed whereby the only people that will ever reap a profit from these facilities are the general contractor and the signature architect.
If we are asked to  create great golf courses for their citizens through insightful, integrated master plans specific to each community we will advise the municipalities and other government entities as to how they can endanger and possibly bankrupt their tax paying owners of other public golf courses.  

2.We will assist communities in creating programs and initiatives that make the public understand that most public courses are the basis for learning the game and are not intended to be great public courses over designed to the point that the average person cannot learn the game nor can the average owner afford the course.  

3. Advise and explain to public  golf facilities that building a golf course on degraded sites just because there is a degraded site or unproductive land is not always  a good idea.   We will diligently try make these owners aware that "sustainability", "eco-sensitive", "green" are buzzwords used mainly by marketing segments of the signature design industry and other golf organizations trying to continue to promote the game in any way they can.

4. Always make sure the client understands that golf has always been a much better protector and enhancer of the environment than the average farm and most of the new hype is nothing more than new hype.

5. Make sure the client knows we have always designed  courses that require less earth moving, water, fertilizer, and other resources in an effort to keep investment and operating costs-and therefore green fees-reasonable. And we will make sure the client understands that the larger signature firms did not seek out this segment of the business until they had completely desecrated the the development side of the industry.  We will also make sure the owner understands that the larger firms and associations have often in the past not advocated some of the cost saving measures and construction methods that they are now promoting AND that they often scoffed at those that used such measures knowing that it would make their clients course profitable.

6. We will make sure the client understands that statements such as : "Create wider strategic routings and sets of shorter "family tees" to encourage children to take up golf and have fun playing it" are too little too late and actually have nothing to do with encouraging people to take up the game.

7. Advocate for non- innovative, basic  practice facilities where young people and newcomers can learn to love golf at a reasonable cost.  We want to emphasize to the public that most of  the support programs and organizations that introduce new players to the sport are not effective and are extremely heavy on the administrative end.  It is also important that the public understand that many of these organizations thrive on large corporations using their support efforts as a "feel-good" promotion to the public.

8. Design facilities that encourage people to play golf as it was meant to be played without all of the additional elements that the recent years have layered on the game.

9. We promise to continue to create public courses that are flexible, fun, and challenging to golfers of a wide range of abilities as we and many other regional designers  have done for the last 30 years .  we promise to make sure the public understands that the large signature firms do not have the experience to design such courses and that there is no way to justify such.  

10. We promise not to be so pompous as to suggest to  local golf course owners to support local businesses and take an active role in their communities.  We acknowledge that these people are good business people and have been supporting their local communities for years in most cases.

11.  We will strive to make the public owner understand that when and if residential golf course design comes back the international signature firms will abandon their efforts toward affordable golf course projects.  

12.  And lastly we will aspire to ingrain in the public owner the understanding that golf is first a game and secondly a business.  Trying to make it something it isn't will fail.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Robert Thompson

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 11:28:37 PM »
Now that was better than RTJII's version.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Mike McGuire

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 11:37:00 PM »
You acknowledge that they acknowledge they will have to accept public golf course work  to survive..

How much public course work is there?  What type / how many  municipalities are building golf courses?

Bill_McBride

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 11:44:37 PM »
Mike Young Signature Comment:  "Cut through the bullshit...".       Bravo Mike!

Mike_Young

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 11:45:53 PM »
You acknowledge that they acknowledge they will have to accept public golf course work  to survive..

How much public course work is there?  What type / how many  municipalities are building golf courses?
From what I have seen most muni's would be glad to sell their course or lease it out.  Afew don't fit this description.  But I don't think many will be built....that entire proclamation was just to help "feed the machine"...the big firms will just be the owners themselves once this China thing goes south....of course there will be a few exceptions ;)
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jim Colton

Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2012, 12:23:50 AM »
Greatest proclamations of all-time:

1. Emancipation
2. Mike Young









3A. RTJ2 Green
3B. RTJ2 Public

Steve Lang

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2012, 09:27:00 AM »
Greatest proclamations of all-time:

1. Emancipation
2. Mike Young



3A. RTJ2 Green
3B. RTJ2 Public

Jim.., certainly you had a typo there and meant

37. RTJ2 Green
38. RTJ2 Public
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Carl Rogers

Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2012, 10:00:17 AM »
Mr. Young,
I suggest a couple of re-writes.  Go for less the wordy phrasing option when expressing an idea.

I still do not see how the game can get out from under the following realities:
-its great attractiveness to many at a superficial level dissolves the second they try to hit the ball for the first time, making it a niche game with a limited lasting appeal to the overall general public

Ronald Montesano

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2012, 10:03:20 AM »
It's always easier to go second...you get to counter what the vanguard presented.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Paul OConnor

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2012, 10:05:04 AM »
Send this to the Village of Wilmette.  They are about to break all your rules on an unnecessary redo of Wilmette Golf Course.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2012, 10:08:04 AM »
Mr. Young,
I suggest a couple of re-writes.  Go for less the wordy phrasing option when expressing an idea.

I still do not see how the game can get out from under the following realities:
-its great attractiveness to many at a superficial level dissolves the second they try to hit the ball for the first time, making it a niche game with a limited lasting appeal to the overall general public

Carl,
I'm sure that's a good idea .  I'm open for "wording" ideas.   ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Sam Morrow

Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 10:30:59 AM »
Mike Young is an attention whore. :D

BCrosby

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 10:31:48 AM »
Mr. Young,
I suggest a couple of re-writes.  Go for less the wordy phrasing option when expressing an idea.


He who casts stones... You might take your own advice. How's about re-writing the truly awful sentence "Go for less the wordy phrasing option when expressing an idea." as "Be more concise."

Helpfully,  Bob

Mike -

While I like your project, in today's economy are we tilting at windmills? Isn't the issue, unhappily, how we dispose of all the excess golf courses, both public and private?

Less helpfully, Bob

Wade Schueneman

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2012, 10:33:38 AM »
Mike,

I would be interested in hearing you expand on #6 if you are so inclined.

Michael George

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2012, 10:39:22 AM »

Mike:

Love the proclamation.   I cannot help but have the image of Jerry Maguire as I was reading it.

While I agree with most of your proclamation, the more difficult process is convincing public officials.   I know that where I live, the public officials no nothing about golf or operating a golf course, but they are totally resistant to giving up control to someone that does.  All they talk about is their "investment" in the golf course and how it must be protected - which means that they won't give up control.

You should follow this proclamation up with a "how to" convince the public officials of the accuracy of your points.  I would pay for that.

Good luck.  Thanks for posting.

"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

Mike_Young

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2012, 10:41:44 AM »
Mike Young is an attention whore. :D
figure a way I can charge you ;D ;D ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Sam Morrow

Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2012, 10:42:35 AM »
Mike Young is an attention whore. :D
figure a way I can charge you ;D ;D ;D


I'm on it! :D

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2012, 10:56:17 AM »
Bob,
As you know we need to rid ourselves of some golf courses. I personally have a problem with a city or county subsidizing a local golf course while one or two privately held daily fees may be going bust in their district.  They subsidize while killing a tax paying entity. 

Wade'
6. We will make sure the client understands that statements such as : "Create wider strategic routings and sets of shorter "family tees" to encourage children to take up golf and have fun playing it" are too little too late and actually have nothing to do with encouraging people to take up the game.
I just couldn't understand where he came up with such a statement except that he might have read one of TD articles on width and thought it would be good to include the word in case a search engine picked it up.  Really just note how many words were in the RTJ2 proclamation in order to pop up on a google search.  Trust me, a good publicist wrote that and included every catch word and phrase that could possibly pull up such on a web search.  It was pretty good effort.
And to go a step further, why does strategy have any thing to do with teaching a child to play golf when he can't hit it 75 yards? It doesn't.
IMHO people take up the game when it is presented as a game and not a lifestyle.  For 20 years we have been presenting golf as a lifestyle.

Michael G,
I agree.  But I was referring to all public golf not just municipal.  I have done municipal golf a few times but I don't feet it should exist if it detracts from a private owner/public facility.  And remember almost every decision at a muni course is covered in politics.  The "business of golf" has made a good profit by preying on those that play the "game of golf" and think that because they play the game they know the business.  It's just a simple selling to those who don't know that they don't know.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Young

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2012, 10:58:05 AM »
Mike Young is an attention whore. :D
figure a way I can charge you ;D ;D ;D


I'm on it! :D
Yea..I figure if I WAS any type of whore and had an hourly rate ..you would be satisfied with about 2 minutes worth... ;D ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Sam Morrow

Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2012, 10:58:41 AM »
Mike Young is an attention whore. :D
figure a way I can charge you ;D ;D ;D


I'm on it! :D
Yea..I figure if I WAS any type of whore and had an hourly rate ..you would be satisfied with about 2 minutes worth... ;D ;D



Best 2 minutes of my day.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2012, 11:02:12 AM »
Mike Young is an attention whore. :D
figure a way I can charge you ;D ;D ;D


I'm on it! :D
Yea..I figure if I WAS any type of whore and had an hourly rate ..you would be satisfied with about 2 minutes worth... ;D ;D



Best 2 minutes of my day.
"rock yo world" Wanda- Ugly Woman
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Kris Shreiner

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2012, 11:14:37 AM »
Mike,

I concur with nearly all you stated in your PROCLAMATION.

Your last point, #12, was/is the key. That..."golf is a game FIRST, and SECONDLY a business."

The ENTIRE INDUSTRY, but PARTICULARLY those at the top of these various organizations/companies, needs a steady, relentless bludgeoning of this reality driven into their greedy, cement-thick heads, or all other proclamation points will be irrelevant!

With regard to the environmental responsibility element not being that important, save some marketing fodder, I STRONGLY beg to differ. You may be referring to the often fluff-heavy PR efforts by some golf industry organizations. On this count, you're bang on. The ongoing, progressive efforts however, that involve collaboration by dedicated, long-invested professionals, that are really intent on crafting improved property management practices, with a less-is-more, lighter footprint approach, is another matter.

For those of us that are fortunate to have been mentored by folks that have always had a profound reverence for the planet, and instilled in us the FACT that you can't crap something up and expect there to be no serious consequences, responsible respect for Mother Earth isn't some recent initiative...it's how we've lived for most of our lives.

When a nation with less than 5 % of the world's people consumes over 25% of the sphere's resources, the finger has to be pointed inward FIRST. Our game of golf in the U.S. has made some strides...though rather small from my view, to reverse what in recent decades was a very poor example of environmental responsibility. We are not alone. Numerous other countries are guilty as well. Many other industries have also done worse, but golf has a major perception problem that WILL NOT go away until we really elevate our game as an industry, to walk the walk ...significantly... BEYOND the talk.

I applaud your frankness and honest appraisal of what is needed. It is refreshing that this site has some of those souls that are not of the lemming mindset. The true agents of change are rarely those that parrot the current mantra de jour. It's ironic that many of those individuals most responsible for where the game is at present are lamenting where it all went wrong... when THEY were the principle architects and participants in the creation of the problems!

Cheers,
Kris 8)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 11:16:35 AM by Kris Shreiner »
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2012, 11:30:34 AM »
Mike,

I concur with nearly all you stated in your PROCLAMATION.

Your last point, #12, was/is the key. That..."golf is a game FIRST, and SECONDLY a business."

The ENTIRE INDUSTRY, but PARTICULARLY those at the top of these various organizations/companies, needs a steady, relentless bludgeoning of this reality driven into their greedy, cement-thick heads, or all other proclamation points will be irrelevant!

With regard to the environmental responsibility element not being that important, save some marketing fodder, I STRONGLY beg to differ. You may be referring to the often fluff-heavy PR efforts by some golf industry organizations. On this count, you're bang on. The ongoing, progressive efforts however, that involve collaboration by dedicated, long-invested professionals, that are really intent on crafting improved property management practices, with a less-is-more, lighter footprint approach, is another matter.

For those of us that are fortunate to have been mentored by folks that have always had a profound reverence for the planet, and instilled in us the FACT that you can't crap something up and expect there to be no serious consequences, responsible respect for Mother Earth isn't some recent initiative...it's how we've lived for most of our lives.

When a nation with less than 5 % of the world's people consumes over 25% of the sphere's resources, the finger has to be pointed inward FIRST. Our game of golf in the U.S. has made some strides...though rather small from my view, to reverse what in recent decades was a very poor example of environmental responsibility. We are not alone. Numerous other countries are guilty as well. Many other industries have also done worse, but golf has a major perception problem that WILL NOT go away until we really elevate our game as an industry, to walk the walk ...significantly... BEYOND the talk.

I applaud your frankness and honest appraisal of what is needed. It is refreshing that this site has some of those souls that are not of the lemming mindset. The true agents of change are rarely those that parrot the current mantra de jour. It's ironic that many of those individuals most responsible for where the game is at present are lamenting where it all went wrong... when THEY were the principle architects and participants in the creation of the problems!

Cheers,
Kris 8)

Kris,
I agree with you regarding the environment. Not to be promoting but... We have been promoting such since we began and in 2000 my Cateechee course was awarded the GCSAA Environemtnal Stewardship Award for Public nationally..and we also innocently fell for the super deluxe Audubon sanctuary ,certified, turbo charged golf program a few times.  Often spending more than $60,000 per course for such.  BUT my issue is that most of this environmental stuff is hype and the supts were actually doing most of it themselves and just not hyping it.  Once the hype began I would guess that probably 85 cents of every dollar went to National organizations or administration and 15 cents actually went to doing something.  I just give the supt more credit for knowing what to do about it themselves without the BS...And I think golf is further along than many of us think when it comes to the environment.  But not because of the hype, it was supt common sense mainly.

As for my FRANKNESS....well I was just being a sincere,  truthful smart ass and yet I was amazed at the solid effort some PR person made to place every key word one could place for a search engine in one proclamation.  Just count them. ;)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 11:33:55 AM by Mike_Young »
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Bill_McBride

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2012, 11:33:50 AM »
Send this to the Village of Wilmette.  They are about to break all your rules on an unnecessary redo of Wilmette Golf Course.

Or the still-devastated city of New Orleans, where the city is about to spend north of $10M on a complete redo of the historic (and pretty fun) City Park courses. 

Niall C

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Re: MIKE YOUNG DESIGNS ISSUES PUBLIC GOLF PROCLAMATION...
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2012, 11:41:43 AM »
"The ENTIRE INDUSTRY, but PARTICULARLY those at the top of these various organizations/companies, needs a steady, relentless bludgeoning of this reality driven into their greedy, cement-thick heads, or all other proclamation points will be irrelevant!"

Kris

Your comment above seems to me to be indiscriminate and in bad taste at a time when many businesses are struggling to survive. Those that run those businesses employ a great many people who have added to the game of golf and have been fortunate to be involved in working in a game that they love. You may also wish to consider that some of the head of companies that you refer to are actually members of this site. Just a thought.

Niall