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Phil McDade

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Good land for golf? UPDATED w/ location
« on: January 06, 2012, 08:51:44 AM »
During my recent travels in the past few months (and I've driven from Southern California to Wisconsin, as well as more modest trips during the holidays), I came across this land, which intrigued me for its possibilities for golf.

What say the board? Is this good land for golf?

Bonus question to provoke thread readership :D: Can you guess its locale within, say, 100 miles?













« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 05:41:36 PM by Phil McDade »

Adam Clayman

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 09:19:00 AM »
I'll guess Iowa.

My guess is that somewhere in them thar hills, one could find great golf. The scale is a possible concern.

 I'll bet a sensitive artist could unveil interesting golf, here.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 09:24:14 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

PCCraig

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 09:21:55 AM »
I thought it looked like Iowa as well, but I'm sure I could be way off.

I've often done the same thing on road trips Phil!
H.P.S.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 09:27:17 AM »
My first thoughts were, Idaho, eastern Oregon, but the Silage made Iowa a better guess.

But there's inherent flaw in every course you see from the road. You can see the road from the course/hole.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

PThomas

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 09:27:40 AM »
looks at least somewhat hilly, so i'll guess either near Galena Il or a little farther north in WI
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 09:28:09 AM »
It is great land as long as there is water, no endangered species and enough players to pay for it
cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Eric Smith

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 09:39:56 AM »

But there's inherent flaw in every course you see from the road. You can see the road from the course/hole.

Aye, there's the rub...



It is indeed a gorgeous setting. Thanks for sharing with us, Phil.

JESII

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 09:58:51 AM »
Merion and Shinnecock have public roads running through them...other elite courses do as well I think...and isn't TOC in the middle of a city?

Golf, at its very best, is a social game.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 10:40:45 AM »
Jim

"and isn't TOC in the middle of a city?"  No sorry Jim its the North, North East of the city



The Courses are in the distance at the top right hand side of the photo (below)


Melvyn
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 10:42:57 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Mark McKeever

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 10:49:14 AM »
I'm going to guess the land is near LaCrosse Wisconsin.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Eric Smith

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 10:50:34 AM »
Jim,

To me the road thing is more about what would be ideal, eg Dream Golf. When staring out the window at large expanses, such as what is depicted in Phil's photos, I tend to imagine building over the hill, away from the road.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 10:54:47 AM »
Eric,

I think I completely disagree.  To me it is one of the strengths of TOC, or Elie, that the course starts in a town and has the road in play.  It gives the game an immediacy and a feeling of place that being stuck in the middle of nowhere simply doesn't.  It makes golf part of day to day life, not something you need to travel hundreds of miles for.  I'm sure I'd love to play some of the destination courses that get talked about here (Dismal, Sand Hills etc.) but I suspect that I'd prefer the feel of TOC or Elie.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Eric Smith

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 11:39:41 AM »
Mark,

We might agree if we're understanding each other completely. With a large expanse, say like on the drive to Mullen, where there is no town to start and finish the golf course, just miles and miles of a road bisecting 500,000 acres of rolling farmland, my preference would be to not build golf holes where you could see them from the road or where golfers could see the road. I am open to it however, when need be, as the new Tom Doak course at Dismal will in fact have a road in play and I don't believe for a minute that it will suffer because of it.

Your point about Elie and TOC is a good one, as I very much enjoyed seeing the church spire and adjacent village while playing at Tenby. I also loved Merion, as Jim mentioned, and the intimacy of being right there in the neighborhood. A beautiful place for sure.

This fall I'll be playing more remote destination golf at Machrihanish, Mac Dunes and The Machrie, before joining the rest of the crew at the town-centered links at Silloth. I am certain that both types of environs will continue to thrill me to no end!

Mark Pearce

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 11:56:35 AM »
Eric,

I think you're right that we have similar positions. 

One thing you get at Silloth that you don't get frequently is industrial architecture, with a flour mill silo in view on the early holes.  Not quite the majesty of the backdrop at Seaton Carew (see The Confidential Guide for details) but characterful, nonetheless!  Silloth also features (and Bill McBride will be delighted by this) the traditional British links caravan site.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2012, 12:00:53 PM »
It reminds me a little bit of a stretch of road between Mnpls and Rochester...It has been several years since we made that drive, but I remember being surprised at how rolling some of the stretches were...

Brandon Urban

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2012, 12:14:04 PM »
This land looks identical to a stretch I pass along I-70 near Abilene, KS. I keep wanting to drive up to some rancher's house, knock on his door and ask him if I can just walk around his land.
181 holes at Ballyneal on June, 19th, 2017. What a day and why I love golf - http://www.hundredholehike.com/blogs/181-little-help-my-friends

Adam Clayman

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2012, 12:22:49 PM »
Sully. A sense of place is the ideal. On a site such as this any concrete would stick out. Eric is correct about the ideal.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Lester George

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2012, 12:23:14 PM »
Mark,

You got there before me.  I spent time at Fort McCoy and I thought of LaCrosse as well.  Wow!

Lester

Philippe Binette

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2012, 02:50:06 PM »
Looks like a good site, if soils are good... could be a great one

but, is there some population around ?

JC Urbina

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Re: Good land for golf?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2012, 03:51:55 PM »
Phil,

I have seen land just like you have photographed just south of Ballyneal and  in Eastern Kansas close to Prairie Dunes.  I have also seen land like that in the Panhandel of Texas just northeast of Amarillo.  I have seen land like that in Western Nebraska and South Western South Dakota.  Saw some land like that in Western Michigan on the lake, although a little more Dunesy.  Up by Crystal Downs I have seen land the resembles the photos but has No Silage on it.  Saw some land like that in Eastern Washington.

On the drive from Ballyneal to the  Sand Hills a truck load of us including Mike Clayton oohed and awed over 1000 of acres of land like that leaving Ogalla.

I know of a  piece of land just 40 miles northeast of Denver has really good sand dunes.  Not as round as the hills you depict but really good wind blown sand.

I think we have all seen land like that.  Dick Youngscap was the only one twenty years ago that said wow, that is " Good land for Golf" and made history with land like that.

I have no Idea where your land is but would like to know. 

Phil McDade

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Re: Good land for golf? UPDATED w/ location
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2012, 05:40:18 PM »
Folks:

Thanks for the replies. Here's the deal:

This is land located just a bit north and west of Windom MN, a small (pop. 4,600) county seat in southwestern Minnesota -- about 30 miles north of the Minnesota-Iowa border and 60 miles east of the state's border with South Dakota. This is true "Little House on the Prairie" country -- a small town not far from here celebrates Laura Ingalls Wilder with a pageant and festivities every year.

I know the area quite well, as I return here a couple times a year with family. It's my wife's hometown, we were married there, and her parents still live there, quite near these parcels of land. Interestingly, the land is literally a stone's throw from the town's fairly pedestrian and flat 9-hole golf course, where I've enjoyed many a round with my father-in-law. The nearest cities of any size are Sioux Falls, SD, about 75 miles to the west, and Mankato, MN, home to a state university and about 60 miles to the east.

As some may know, southern Minnesota is home to some of the most productive farmland in the country, as the soils are rich and get plenty of annual rain, and the land is fairly flat, making for easy crop production. But this parcel of land, unusual for the area, stands out for its rolling topography. A mile or so west of here, or south or north, and the land returns to the flat terrain used in crop production and some livestock grazing. It's not overly large -- perhaps 300 acres? -- but easily large enough for an 18-hole golf course.

In a way, it reminded me a bit of the land of Erin Hills -- not as dramatic, but in the way that Erin Hills sits among the rolling lands of the Kettle Moraine area of Wisconsin, which is distinguished from the rest of the state by the dramatic contours of the land:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45966.0.html

I'm not sure why this Windom land stands out from its surrounds, although my guess is that the winding Des Moines River, which borders the eastern edge of these land parcels, may have played a role. The glaciers that flattened much of Minnesota's southern farmland may have just left a bunch of deposits at this particular spot -- similar to how the land at Erin Hills was created.

Adam: These parcels of land are crossed and bordered by some roads, including a quiet two-lane state highway that forms the southern border.

Paul, Mark, Matthew, and Lester: Good guesses -- the southwestern corner of Wisconsin, northwestern corner of Illinois, the northeastern corner of Iowa and southeastern corner of Minnesota form what's known as the "Driftless Area" in these parts, where the glaciers parted and didn't flatten everything. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driftless_Area I've always wondered why this area, where I've traveled extensively, doesn't include more or better golf courses, and I think in a lot of cases the land is too abrupt.

Brandon: On my travels from California to Wisconsin, I drove through the Flint Hills, which would make any GCA wingnut drool. Kansas looks to have some really good land for golf.

JC: Your post is really one of the reasons I posted these photos. Often you hear the refrain: "All the good land for golf is gone." Having traveled from California to Wisconsin (through the Texas panhandle and Kansas), as well as much of South Dakota and the Upper Midwest, I'd argue the opposite. There is a ton of great land for golf still out there. Whether or not, as Philippe suggests, that can be turned into a viable golf operation, is another question, of course. The Sand Hills courses of Nebraska and their ilk suggest perhaps -- that remoteness doesn't prohibit the creation of something worthy (and may enhance it in many ways).

(For anyone interested in seeing an aerial of the land -- which doesn't do it justice -- google-map "Windom Country Club" and follow County Highway 15 west. The land depicted in these photos is contained in a rectangular piece of land bordered by Co. Hwy 15 on the north, 440th Ave. on the west, MN state Hwy 62 on the south, and the Des Moines River on the east. Most of the really good land is on either side of 423rd St., which bisects the land.)


Melvyn Morrow

Re: Good land for golf? UPDATED w/ location
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2012, 05:50:37 PM »

Islay, Site of an old lost 18 Hole Golf Course





Melvyn

Alex Miller

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Re: Good land for golf? UPDATED w/ location
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2012, 05:58:18 PM »
What do folks think of this piece of land?



JC Urbina

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Re: Good land for golf? UPDATED w/ location
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2012, 10:17:00 PM »
How would you have liked to travel with Mike Keiser when he was looking for land to build the Bandon Dunes resort. He gets to see some pretty special pieces of land.

 

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Good land for golf? UPDATED w/ location
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2012, 10:26:39 PM »
Giants in the earth
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!