Which courses deserve more attention and discussion on GCA?

[PCCraig]

5 at The Country Club This course gets no discussion on the site, which, frankly, sucks.

I agree. The Country Club is a Top 30 golf course in the country, has hosted many national tournaments, is well known....yet no one talks about it on Golf Club Atlas. Why is that?

What other courses deserve more attention and discussion on GCA?

[Jud_T]

Pat,

I think it simply comes down to what courses a number of us have played.  Since the Country Club is a pretty tough ticket and perhaps just below the really big name courses it gets short shrift.  I did a photo tour of a Doak course in Mexico that got little play as Greg Tallman and I may be the only guys here who've actually played the course.  There's a ton of off the run Ross, Banks and Langford courses that I'd like to see discussed here.  But the best courses that the most guys have played are of course the ones that get brought up the most.  Merion being the exception that proves the rule.

[Ronald Montesano]

Follow the Joe Bausch approach...pound for pound, the most valuable contributor we have.

Joe takes a boatload of photos, although Tim Martin swears he has no clue when Joe has time, as Bausch is also busy lightening Tim's wallet!

He then crafts a worthy photo tale with salient commentary. Even if you haven't had the pleasure (or distaste, or both) of playing the course, you feel a hearty invitation (supported by visual evidence) to join the conversation with questions and/or affirmations.

It is a chore, and sometimes folks don't comment, while other times they do. That's the risk you run. In the end, you've contributed to a common history, the descendant of the oral tradition, and what more noble pursuit exists than that?

[Ronald Montesano]

A good photo thread, from this vantage point, includes 4-6 shots per hole from a variety of perspectives (at least one should be a back-toward-the-tee shot of some value.) I realize that this totals to 72-108 total images, but we are striving for completeness.

[Phil McDade]

Boat of Garten. Probably doesn't get as much attention as it deserves for several reasons:

-- It's remote (although not hard to get to; it's a few minutes off the A9), and not surrounded by many other top-tier courses, so it probably gets bypassed by those venturing around Scotland.

-- It's not a links in a country that's dominated by top-flight links courses.

-- It's short, with little room for lengthening, and folks may take one look at the yardage (@ 6,000 yds) and dismiss it as too sporty or nor worthy of the full attention given other, longer courses. It's also tree-lined and tight, which some here on GCA may view as a demerit.

Here's why it deserves an in-depth profile: It's got a great pedigree (Braid is largely responsible for its design); it's got a great and varied collection of par 4s, and some par 3s of merit; it's a tough little course, with small greens and tough approach shots and demands on all facets of the game (in a way that some longer courses don't). I was struck in my visit to Scotland how many golfers noted how tough this course was before I played it.

Is there a better inland course in Scotland? If so, I doubt the list is too long.

[Sean_A]

It may sound strange, but I think TOC deserves more talk.  Generally speaking though, the second tier course can be very interesting and in truth may only be second tier due to a lack of fame rather than quality architecture - Tenby is a good example.

Ronald - I have a lot of time for Joe B, but personally I prefer far less than 70 pix unless there is a specific reason and rare for that many. 

Ciao

[Mike Hendren]

Peachtree Golf Club.  Great notwithstanding the lack of viable ground game options. 

Bogey

[Jud_T]

Sean,

I really like the length of your tours.  A selection of the most interesting holes and photos, and a good intro to the course.  Most guys probably don't want to slog through every hole and every possible angle, except for the very best courses and those they're already familiar with and fond of.  While it's nice to have a complete tour for historical and reference purposes, most guys just want to get an idea of whether or not it's worth a trip to play the course, which can be easily accomplished with several well written paragraphs and half a dozen good photos.

[Sean_A]

Ronald

A half dozen would leave me hangin!  I would ideally like to see a well written piece with maybe 15-20 pix in support.  I am not good enough to provide this so I have to cheat with more pix.  The problem occurs when the pix aren't so good....

Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

As good a place as any to say thanks again to Sean for what is, imo, truly top-flight work.  (Sean - modesty becomes you, but is un-necessary and inappropriate in this context.  In other areas, i wouldn't know ).   Many of the good courses you profile, well, I think they may in fact be great courses; while some of the great courses so often profiled around here I think may benefit -- just a tad, just a titch -- from the power/weight of conventional wisdom.

All the best

Peter

[JMEvensky]

As good a place as any to say thanks again to Sean for what is, imo, truly top-flight work.  (Sean - modesty becomes you, but is un-necessary and inappropriate in this context.  In other areas, i wouldn't know ).   Many of the good courses you profile, well, I think they may in fact be great courses; while some of the great courses so often profiled around here I think may benefit -- just a tad, just a titch -- from the power/weight of conventional wisdom.

All the best

Peter

I agree.

Thanks to Sean and everyone else who takes the time to post photo tours with commentary.

[Jim_Kennedy]

An older photo taken at TCC, showing a wavy green and some seriously abrupt bunker construction.
 


I wonder how much of that still exists?

[Mac Plumart]

Pat...you've got some great topics started right now.

I think courses that deserve the most attention and discussions are ones where the consensus might be wrong and/or there is no consensus at all right now.

Dismal was a highly panned courses, but with new ownership and a few tweaks it is now getting more respect.  Was it awful before and wonderful now?  Probably not.  It just wasn't seen enough and/or discussed before, most likely.

Kingsley only rated by Golfweek might be a mistake.  Hence the need for more discussion.

Rock Creek needs more people to see it to get the consensus/ranking correct.

Pat Mucci brings up Pine Tree a lot.  Do we need to discuss this some more?  Maybe.

But underlying it all, is just what I said earlier...we need to discuss courses where the current opinion might be incorrect.  Whether that is over-rated or under-rated doesn't matter.  And we need people who aren't afraid to go against the consensus opinion.

Courses that might fit that bill are:

The Island in Ireland
The Machirie
Highlands Links
St. George's
Essex CC
Wolf Point
Old Head
Alotian
Some of the courses around Cleveland

Off the top of my head.

[Mark Pearce]

A course I was fortunate enough to play last year and which I thought was wonderful but which barley gets a mention here is Charles River CC.

There seems to be very little discussion of Woodall Spa, given its reputation.  Saunton is another that gets little air time here, compared to, say, Burnham and St Enodoc.

[Ronald Montesano]

Mark--Chuck River CC in Ran's Courses By Country section left me drooling. Seems incredible and absolutely overlooked.

[Mac Plumart]

The problem with referencing specific holes on various "best of" threads is that most on the site haven't played it. But they should make time for it as it really is worthy of play / discussion!


Bingo!  And I think this goes for many courses, not just The Island. 

[Mark Pearce]

Mark--Chuck River CC in Ran's Courses By Country section left me drooling. Seems incredible and absolutely overlooked.

Ronald,

I played it within a couple of days of Yale.  It absolutely does not suffer by comparison.  My first Ross (other than a round at Dornoch 20 years ago) and hugely impressive.  Text book in the way it offers wide fairways and light rough but punishes any shot that's out of position, great greens and great (and bold) use of the terrain.  Refreshingly a club that doesn't appear to care much about ratings.

[Ronald Montesano]

Truly...who wouldn't enjoy this...



or this...


or this?

[Scott Warren]

Dismal River /

[Keith OHalloran]

The Bridge,
No I am not kidding, and yes, I have searched for prior threads, and found nothing. The Bridge was built by a big time arrchi, it is in rare golf country, and they have continued to improve the course each year. They have done tree removal, they have changed tees, they have responded to criticism. We are on a site devoted to architecture, and this course is changing before our eyes. I understand that many people haven't seen it, but Pine Valley is discussed a lot and that is exclusive too!

[Mac Plumart]

Dismal River /

Agreed Scott. 

In all seriouness, this thread could be one of the great ones if it starts the snowball rolling.

Now, back to Dismal...

[Sam Morrow]

My first thoughts were Peachtree and Quaker Ridge.

[Mark Saltzman]

There are probably 100s of courses that deserve more attention.

Sean Arble does a great job of profiling many courses in the UK that many of us (or at least I) have never known... many of them look great and certainly seem like they'd be tons of fun to play.  [Mr. Sheehy, you do a very nice job as well]  

It would be great if the same was done for US/Canadian courses... we see it a bit from Ron. M and Joe Bausch, but I'd love to see more course profiles, and maybe less threads that come down to courses or holes just being listed (and yes, I see the irony, as this thread asks for courses to be listed).

With that said, some courses that I think deserve more attention, and I will personally profile if I can get permission from the respective golf courses:

CC of Florida - Lester George
Palmetto - Dr. Mac
Scarboro - AW Tillie
Plainfield - Ross (OK, this does get some attention here, but mostly about how short it is and not enough about how great it is)
Oakland Hills (South) - Ross (too often labelled as a boring slog, while the greatest set of greens I have ever seen go ignored).
Orchard Lake - Colt/Alison
Old Town Club - P. Maxwell
Charlotte CC - Ross (I know Ran profiled it, but it's still never discussed)
Carolina GC - Ross
Lookout Point - Travis
Arcadia Bluffs - Smith(?)
Wine Valley - Hixson (did this one already)
Old Works - Nicklaus
Prairie Club (Dunes) - Did this one too
Franklin Hills - don't have any pictures, unfortunately, but this one absolutely deserves more attention
Essex (Ontario) - did this one

...and from everything I've heard, and when I finally get to Atlanta... Rivermont...

And ones I don't know personally, but are rarely discussed here, but probably should be:

The Golf Club
Pete Dye GC
Boston GC
Bayonne
Concession
LACC
Wannamoisett
Myopia Hunt
Baltimore CC
Cascades
Ridgewood
Monroe...

And Pine Valley and Merion  

[Mac Plumart]

Mark...

I think you are doing a great job of bringing to light some courses that rarely get any discussion on this site.

To me, you really brought to light The Prairie Club (Dunes) course and my need to get up there to see it. 

You've touched on Wine Valley and I've heard others talk about it as well, and this led me to look a bit deeper.  And it looks fantastic.  I need to get up there to see it.

Your latest post of Kawartha really opened my eyes on that one as well.  It will be on my "to play" list soon.

So, I am not sure how much discussion some of these courses mentioned on this thread will get...but I am always keen on becoming aware of worthwhile courses.  And I'm sure I'm not alone on that.

After learning about courses and playing them...all we can do is mention them on the site and see if others want to talk about them.  Right? 

[Stewart Naugler]

I will post a photo tour of Franklin Hills, Orchard Lake, and Oakland Hills if you guys are interested in discussing them. I really love the discussions on why the greatest tracks (Cypress, Pine Valley, etc) are the greatest tracks. This leads to great discussions/explanations on what great golf course architecture is. That being said, I do think we're missing the boat on one legendary track that was brought back to life recently (LA North). Maybe it's my fault for not posting more pictures, as I played there before and after the recent restoration/renovation. Now that the snow's falling I'll have more time to post, but I'd have to think others have played LA North after the outstanding work Gil Hanse/Jim Wagner did.

Selfishly, I would like to hear more thoughts on The Valley Club, Shoreacres, and Chicago Golf because they're fresh in my mind.

I would also love to hear much more about The Country Club (Brookline and Pepper Pike).

We're extremely lucky in that we have some of the greatest minds in golf that are members of this board. Back ten years ago when I was a lurker, this board had some unbelievably informative discussions.