[Patrick_Mucci]

We usually hear stories of extreme conditions, be they the green speeds at Oakmont, the Wind at Bandon and combinations at other courses.

Not long ago I went to play Pine Tree.

I was told by members that the greens were spectacular, firm, fast and true.

When I dropped four balls on the practice putting green I knew what to expect and mentally adjusted my stroke accordingly.

So, when I stroked my first 30 footer, it rolled past the cup, it kept on rolling and rolling and rolling until it stopped 15 feet beyond the cup.
My next putt was much better, it stopped 10 feet past the cup,
Then 8 feet, then 6 feet.

I thought to myself, these are fast, firm and true.

I kept putting.

I couldn't stop the ball

This reinforced my belief that NOTHING rolls like a ball.

I looked over and saw members, who were mostly high handicaps, putting extremely well.

Their balls, the one's that didn't go in, were all around the cup, they had figured out the pace and break.
I hadn't.

So, I thought, how long will it take me to acclamate myself to these conditions ?  3 holes, 6 holes, 9 or 18 ?

After the round it was clear that it would take more than 18, that distance was inextricably entwined with break and that mastering the two would require practice, especially 60 foot approach putts, birdie putts to the TV announcers, along with mid and short putts, and especially on any downhill putts that I would be unfortunate enough to play.

As I reflected upon my dliema, the element of the WIND entered the equation, and I thought, when a visitor comes to play courses like
Bandon, Seminole, Friars Head or Shinnecock, when the greens are FF&T, can they really adjust their game within 3.5 hours ?

I saw good golfers four putting from distance.

This has to put pressure on the golfer, pressure in the form of getting the ball closer to the hole and avoiding the dredded 40, 50 and 60 foot approach putts, that in turn putts pressure on the irons, and the driver.

So, how much of a disadvantage is a visitor under, when compared to a member, when playing on windy courses with fast, firm and true greens ?

How many strokes would it take to compensate for those conditions, conditions the visitor isn't used to ?

[JMEvensky]

So, how much of a disadvantage is a visitor under, when compared to a member, when playing on windy courses with fast, firm and true greens ?

 

I'd guess the better the player,the less disadvantage--my theory being that better players' games travel better.

I'd say that guys in the middle would struggle the most.Anyone who struggles in calm conditions at their home course will likely have a lot of trouble on an unfamiliar course in adverse conditions.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Don't you think experience is important?  Pat, you have certainly played courses with firm and fast conditions. You have some muscle memory from which to draw.  I think sometimes it is as difficult to adjust to very different conditions on courses that I regularly play.  My home course usually has very fast greens.  Sometimes when they are slow I can't get the ball to the hole and it takes me the entire round to adjust.
On courses I am unfamiliar with slope is the seems to be the thing I have the most trouble with. The first time I played Ballyhack slope and undulation gave me fits. 

Wind doesn't give me as much trouble.  I love playing in the wind.

[jeffwarne]

That would depend entirely on whether one was struggling to get used to the conditions (acclimate) or simply having trouble enthusiastically praising the place (acclamate).
 

[Tim Gavrich]

As Bart Bradley, Roger Wolfe, and Mike Hendren (as well as our great caddie Lance) can tell you, I was completely helpless on the glassy greens at The Olde Farm this fall.  Normally I love fast greens, but these chewed me up and spit me out; very impressive surfaces.

[jonathan_becker]

"So, how much of a disadvantage is a visitor under, when compared to a member, when playing on windy courses with fast, firm and true greens ?"

I think it's a lot and that includes most better players.  The type of surface can be a determining factor.

Last week, I played Kapalua on an extremely windy day and trying to adjust to the grain of the bermuda was challenge enough.  12 downgrain, 8 into it, then trying to guess what the wind is going to do to the ball going across the grain.  I had six 3 putts my first round and the surfaces were flawless. 

I spoke with a gentleman after the round that lives at Kapalua and plays there regularly. He said that during the weekly scratch games with a lot of the assistant pros on the island, the first timers that show up normally get butchered on the greens.  I believe it.

[Ben Sims]

So, how much of a disadvantage is a visitor under, when compared to a member, when playing on windy courses with fast, firm and true greens ?

How many strokes would it take to compensate for those conditions, conditions the visitor isn't used to ?

Pat,

Timidity is the great equalizer when it comes to being a visitor, not conditions.  The fallacy is that your post assumes a visitor "isn't used to" those conditions.  But as a member of the clubs you are a member, I find it hard to believe that you weren't acclimatized--at least in some degree--to the speeds you saw at Pine Tree.  

The easiest green to putt are those that allow for a repeatable stroke.  I think speed allows for a repeatable stroke due to how softly you must strike the putt.  Oakmont's greens aren't impossible because they are a 13, they're impossible because they're a 13 that's on the side of a hill in many cases.  Augusta isn't hard to putt because they roll at 13, it's because they roll at 13 with large internal breaks.  Last year when I was in the northeast, I saw some amazing (fast) green conditions in New Jersey and Long Island in October.  I've never putted better in my life.  I was able to dial in a much shorter, more accurate stroke versus what I normally have to do here in South Texas. 

I think the real equalizer in regards to the visitor isn't a true and fast/firm green.  In fact, I wager you'd putt worse at Palmetto or here in Texas than you did at Pine Tree.  Well kept dwarf Bermuda will be moderately quick.  But the grain associated with Bermuda, combined with some of the tilts of the green will make it much harder to read than a perfectly true rolling green, IMHO.

[jeffwarne]

So, how much of a disadvantage is a visitor under, when compared to a member, when playing on windy courses with fast, firm and true greens ?

How many strokes would it take to compensate for those conditions, conditions the visitor isn't used to ?

Pat,

Timidity is the great equalizer when it comes to being a visitor, not conditions.  The fallacy is that your post assumes a visitor "isn't used to" those conditions.  But as a member of the clubs you are a member, I find it hard to believe that you weren't acclimatized--at least in some degree--to the speeds you saw at Pine Tree.  

The easiest green to putt are those that allow for a repeatable stroke.  I think speed allows for a repeatable stroke due to how softly you must strike the putt.  Oakmont's greens aren't impossible because they are a 13, they're impossible because they're a 13 that's on the side of a hill in many cases.  Augusta isn't hard to putt because they roll at 13, it's because they roll at 13 with large internal breaks.  Last year when I was in the northeast, I saw some amazing (fast) green conditions in New Jersey and Long Island in October.  I've never putted better in my life.  I was able to dial in a much shorter, more accurate stroke versus what I normally have to do here in South Texas.  

I think the real equalizer in regards to the visitor isn't a true and fast/firm green.  In fact, I wager you'd putt worse at Palmetto or here in Texas than you did at Pine Tree.  Well kept dwarf Bermuda will be moderately quick.  But the grain associated with Bermuda, combined with some of the tilts of the green will make it much harder to read than a perfectly true rolling green, IMHO.

The better the player the sooner they will acclimate, and they will be acclamated for it.

Ben brings up an interesting point regarding his experiences on fast greens up north this fall.
By shortening his stroke, he was able to acclimate nicely.
Most people tell themselves to hit it harder on slow greens and softer on fast greens.
Adjusting the length of the stroke is a much faster and better way to adjust, and allows one to keep their own personal tempo.
Most often people will tell themselves to hit softer or harder, then forget on the way down .

Usually the more traveled a player is, the more quickly he will acclimate as well.
I've seen plenty of home course 5's that couldn't break 90 or putt on links courses.

Fast greens with appropriate slopes for the speed pale in compaison in difficulty and acclimation time to to slow greens with the required slope to make downhill putts scary, and uphill puts a study in adjustment AND solid contact.

[Bill_McBride]

One thing that really annoys me is a practice putting green that has nothing to do with the greens on the course.   Then you hit putts that will have you truly screwed up soon!

[Ben Sims]

Fast greens with appropriate slopes for the speed pale in comparison in difficulty and acclimation time to slow greens with the required slope to make downhill putts scary, and uphill puts a study in adjustment AND solid contact.

Jeff,

I know it sounds ridiculous, but I have had more 3 putts here at our dinky little 9 holer here on base after trips to well conditioned courses.  Acclimatizing back to slow greens is brutally hard compared to the simple stroke used for fast greens.  

Everybody talks about speed like it's a challenge.  My belief is that speed takes one variable out of the equation.  All I have to do is focus on line and keeping the putt above the hole, it will always have a chance to go in.  On sub-10ft greens, line AND speed matter.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

How do you take a shorter backswing on a 60 footer ?

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

How do you take a shorter backswing on a 60 footer ?

Visualize a target 10 feet or so short of the hole and commit to that.

If you normally go back 30 inches on a 60 footer , shorten to something less than 30 inches.
Rather than green inking me, try it.

Much simpler than u think, keep your regular tempo and hit putts for 10 minutes or so,committing to a spot short of the hole, when visiting a course with faster greens. (reverse the process for slower greens)

[Tim Nugent]

Since the longest 6" on any green are the 6" between your ears, I try to keep my putting stoke down to the fewest moving parts I can muster (straight back and thru stroke).  To account for green speed all I do is move the ball back in my stance and aim a bit higher for faster greens and forward and lower for slower greens.  This system usually allows me to Dail In in just a few holes. 
In the end it all boils down to confidence and conviction. If you let doubt creep into the equation, you are toast.

[Bill_McBride]

Jeff,

How do you take a shorter backswing on a 60 footer ?

Visualize a target 10 feet or so short of the hole and commit to that.

If you normally go back 30 inches on a 60 footer , shorten to 24 inches.
Rather than green inking me, try it.

Much simpler than u thinTyk, keep your regular tempo and hit putts for 10 minutes or so when visiting a course with faster greens.

See my post #8.  How many times have you been on a flat practice putting green and never seen a flat green the rest of the day?   Those 10 minutes groove in just the wrong stroke.   

[Tim Nugent]

Bill, just stay with the 3-6'er's on the PPG,  Not enough didtyance to have slope enter into the equation.  Plus, you will probably be seeing that putt a lot on the next 18 greens

[Michael Goldstein]

Even slight changes in speed can make life very frustrating if you never have time to adjust (as is often the case on a golf holiday).

Last year the thing I grew to respect most about the pro's is their ability to adjust to the greens every week.

When speed is off, it's virtually impossible to sink a decent putt with any degree of borrow.

(Side note: I met an old golf coach one day whose advice was to spend 5 minutes putting into the hole from half a foot!!! The goal on each putt, he said, was for the ball to always fall into the hole without hitting the back of the cup.  He advised to slowly work up to a foot, two feet and so on with the same goal of dropping the ball into the front of the cup.  His theory was that if you can master the speed then you can read putts better and that the hole becomes twice as wide.  Then you can hone your skill by aiming for the sides of the holes as Crenshaw famously did on the ANGC putting green.  I think he's onto something with this theory.)

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I don’t know if anyone else does it – I acclimatise on the practice green by putting with my standard intuitive tempo at differing holes –  if they are generally short I lengthen my grip on the shaft, if long I shorten my grip till I feel I‘m comfortable.

Then I take that grip position on to the  course.

[Niall C]

John

I'm sometimes wary of too much practice putting before a round on a course I don't know. I often find that the green speed is significantly different to whats out on the course. If you get too tuned in to the practice green it becomes very hard to adapt once you'rre on the course.

Niall

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