How do we shrink the game?

[Mike_Young]

I think Andy Rooney said: "To ignore the facts does not change the facts."
Presently there are all types of lightly disguised efforts to "grow the game".  But reality is we can't grow it.  It is too big due to development of the last 25 years that happened not for golf but for home lots.  And now banks and investors are taking over properties that were not financially sound and the fact is they need to close some of the golf holes within these properties.  BUT most have not yet accepted the FACT that we are keeping non functioning golf courses open because people own homes on them.  Eventually that will cease.  Meanwhile we have developed "feel good" programs like First Tee to say we are bringing people to the game.  Doesn't work.  We talk about 12 hole courses and larger holes etc but FACT is weekends make up 50% of golf rounds and now days fathers do not play golf on weekends like they used to.  With two earner families the father doesn't have saturday free.  AND golf should not try to take the place of kid time. 
But the answer is easy: we just need to shrink it and things will fall back in lace and golf will be fine.  So how do we do it?

[Bill_McBride]

I think the game is shrinking itself.  Darwinism will result in a "right-sized" golf world.  Having the right model will be critical going forward.  Think Rustic Canyon, think design-build without unnecessary frills.   Think reduced water consumption and drought-resistant turf.   Think minimal maintenance costs.

[Mac Plumart]

I'll add two cents using the banking model as my basis.

The US markets have too many banks.  And, like during the S&L crisis a key to recovery is to consolidate those banks and/or let them go under.  Less banks in the industry, means less cut throat pricing, and more profit to go round.  We have that same issue now, but it seems like people and governments don't want any to go out of business...so we prolong the problems and keep revenues and profits down as the race to the bottom regarding pricing structure is the only way to compete.  Long story short...we need less banks.

I think this is similiar to the golf industry...at least where I live.  Too many courses.  The marginally successful ones are cutting their prices to absurd levels to try to get traffic and this hurts the whole industry, I would think.  I use the disk drive makers for my basis for this theory.  They cut their own throats by lowering prices non-stop in that race to the bottom I mentioned above.  Price takers struggle in any industry.  Price setter thrive.  Too many courses makes them de facto price takers.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mike - stop building good, simple, understated, affordable, easy to maintain golf courses and golf will shrink down to just about zero in just about one generation, 25 years more or less.

Peter

[John Kavanaugh]

The idea of "cost per round" is an obsolete concept. We need to find how it found its way into golf and stamp it out.

[JESII]

The idea of cost per round IS the concept...but the idea of value per dollar is going to be the concept. You're correct that joiners are the most important people, but what membership model offers value for the 25 round a year guy?

[David Kelly]

Bill,

I wish Rustic Canyon had thought about drought resistant turf itself.

To paraphrase Tony Soprano, golf is trending downward these days and is doing a good job of shrinking on its own.

[Morgan Clawson]

It will happen organically.

Some golf communities will decide to build homes or make wetlands where the holes are.

Some municipalites will decide to shut down a course, particularly if they have several courses. They can sell of the land to fund new school buildings.

Some clubs close to metro areas will sell their land to housing developers.

Some clubs at the edge of metro areas will sell their clubs back to farmers.

[Eric Strulowitz]

I think Andy Rooney said: "To ignore the facts does not change the facts."
Presently there are all types of lightly disguised efforts to "grow the game".  But reality is we can't grow it.  It is too big due to development of the last 25 years that happened not for golf but for home lots.  And now banks and investors are taking over properties that were not financially sound and the fact is they need to close some of the golf holes within these properties.  BUT most have not yet accepted the FACT that we are keeping non functioning golf courses open because people own homes on them.  Eventually that will cease.  Meanwhile we have developed "feel good" programs like First Tee to say we are bringing people to the game.  Doesn't work.  We talk about 12 hole courses and larger holes etc but FACT is weekends make up 50% of golf rounds and now days fathers do not play golf on weekends like they used to.  With two earner families the father doesn't have saturday free.  AND golf should not try to take the place of kid time. 
But the answer is easy: we just need to shrink it and things will fall back in lace and golf will be fine.  So how do we do it?

Mike, I am not sure that "golf will be fine".  I think the game is past its heydey and in a serious decline for the following reasons:

1.  I have a good friend who is a fairly well known instructor,  he told me he has never been so frustrated with not only teaching but the game in general.  He says that appointments are frequently not kept,  and people do not even have the courtesy to call.  Quite often, during a lesson, the student stops to answer the cell phone or send a text.  At $125 an hour, this is unbelievable!     During a lesson, he gives his students things to work on including drills and exercises, it is often clear to him in the following lessons that no effort was taken to do the drills and exercises.  Frustration kicks in early, no one wants to do the work, yet high levels of results are expected.   We all know golf is a tough game, I spend many hours putting, chipping, etc. This new generation especially is not willing to do this.  This means frustration on the course and a very high attrition rate.

2.  The new generation has a very short attention span.  Everything is a tweet or text.  Golf is a long day out, I am not convined that this new generation is willing to invest 4+ hours a round, plus the time coming and going, plus the time to warm up.  

3.  There is no respect for the game anymore.  I don't remember the last time I have played a 4 hour round.   I have had to call the clubhouse at my club more than once, for groups on the greens for over 20 minutes, yes you heard right.  What in the name of God are they  doing out there, for the life of me I cannot figure it all out.   There are so many electronic devices out there, cell phones, GPS, etc, from a purist standpoint this has further contaminated our game.  I have played in tournaments where my team members could not get off their cell phones and spend time worried to death with yardages  marching off the yards and then verifying it with GPS.  HELP!!!!!!!!!!

4.  We have become a matriarchy, women rule.  Yes, they do.   And this profound sociological shift, will affect the volume of rounds played.  Women do love sports of course.  But women put first priority in their nest, thank God for them, because many of the men are sure not doing it.    Women are the storng ones now, they are the ones coming up in management they are running the households, they are doing it all.  It is becoming harder and harder to get a group together for a day out, let alone a long trip, because it seems to be an endless sales job with the wife to get out.  Seems more and more guys won't move without "permission" these days.  And some of them would rather stay home and play video games than get out and play some golf, that takes some work!    Guys have become awfully wimpy and whiny, yes women rule.  And this means less guys out there playing golf.  It used to be a snap to get a group of guys together for the anuual buddy trip.  Have fond memories of 36 hole days for a week at Pinehurst and MB.  Almost impossible now, can't get guys to commit.  They have to consult for hours and days  with their wives, they have to ponder for months before they can make a decison.  I say the buddy trip we have all come to cherish and look forward to is a dying institution.

5.  There is less and less knowledge of the tradiitons of the game and its history.  I am amazed as to how many times I play a course and no one can name the designer.  I am amazed at how many people have no idea where or what Pine Valley is.  I am amazed how many timesI have to hear that links courses are cattle fields.   I am amazed at people just get up and whack the ball and don't take a deep breath to enjoy the wonderful architectural elements and the wonderful nature.  Most golfers out there, especially the new ones, could care less!  And  am amazed at how many times I have to deal with a cart girl during a round, leave me alone. I am amazed at how many times I have to wait because people are buying food/beverage from the cart girl or at the turn.  And I am equally amazed at how a bunch of pot beliied old men, old enough to be the cart girls father or grandfather, feel this need to make flirtacious and sometimes even lewd comments.   And of course the poor girl takes it all, after all she needs the tips and would not dare tell the customer what they really think.    And the god awful, sugar laced fatty crap this food is, any wonder so many golfers out there look the way they do and are on as many prescriptions as they are.  Why can't we just get back to golf, the game, and appreciating the game for what it is.  It is so rich, but who really cares anymore.  

6.  And of course, there are the pure economics.   Clubs are expensive, balls are expensive, I am amazed at all the $200+ shafts out there, who is buying this crap!  I have demoed the best shafts out there and cannot tell the difference from how my offthe shelf OEM performs.   It is very expensive to take a trip for a week, when you have other priorities.  And the courses are not run by busines s people, how many tee time sheets are empty because they refuse to budge on their rates.  Because it might detract from the pereceived quality of the course.  Or GOd forbid, we let riff raff on, we have to preseve the "image".    How silly!  We have to get real about the economics here, everyone has their head in the sand!

The game is dying.   The average age at my course is well over 60.  Many guys over 70, good for them.  We need to replace these people , however, and the volume is just not there.  Many many clubs will be closing in the next 25 years.  I see the OEM equipment folks in for a huge awakening.  How many more years can you say that you clubs are longer and more forgiving than last years model and charge another $100 to justify this.  And why would anyone with half a brain, and I am being generous, who has some capital to invest, do so in a golf course.  .   Given all the costs and uncertainty, surely there are better places that entrprepeneurs will invest .  

A special group here, in this forum.   Such a love and passion for the game.   But this is a microcosm, not reflective of Joe Golfer.  And certintly not reflective of where Joe Golfer is going.  I see the day where golf will be an elitist sport again.  Limited access, for the few that can afford it.  I see sharp drops in demand.  The industry has eternally been optimistic,  i think this is pure foolishness, there is no reason to be optimistic, at least as the future of golf is concerned.  

[John Kavanaugh]

The idea of cost per round IS the concept...but the idea of value per dollar is going to be the concept. You're correct that joiners are the most important people, but what membership model offers value for the 25 round a year guy?

There is no value in luxury. At 51 years old it is as important to me to be able to do something as how many times i do it. As a matter of fact the very definition of luxury may be the ability to throw value out the window. Even the Scots, as cheap as they may be, don't golf for the value.

[Anthony Gray]

  I think it is shrinking. Less courses being built.

  Anthony

[Morgan Clawson]

Eric -

Hell of a post!

I agree with most of your sentiments.

But, the game will not die. It will just get a bit smaller.

[JESII]

Even the Scots, as cheap as they may be, don't golf for the value.

The hell they don't. What percentage of golf at the 10 most expensive golf courses in Scotland is played by Scots?

[John Kavanaugh]

Even the Scots, as cheap as they may be, don't golf for the value.

The hell they don't. What percentage of golf at the 10 most expensive golf courses in Scotland is played by Scots?

I do believe their local memberships are full.

[Michael Moore]

Jim Sullivan -

John Kavanaugh once explained the real value of a golf membership in a way that changed my thinking. This is the second or third time I have regurgitated these thoughts, which combine his skills as a bourgeois vulgarian and poet just about perfectly -

"One of the ways I justify paying dues is through the use of opportunity costs.  At $600 per month you can say a club costs $20 per day to golf.  Sitting at my desk right now I have to weigh the options of either working, drinking, gambling, talking to my wife or golfing.  If I choose to golf it only costs me the $20 I have already payed for the right to play today.  If I choose to work, invest time in my marital relationship, or just get drunk and gamble I plan on earning a return far greater than $20.  Therefore my cost per round at a $600 a month private club is only $20 per round no matter how few rounds I play per year."

[jeffwarne]

I think Andy Rooney said: "To ignore the facts does not change the facts."
Presently there are all types of lightly disguised efforts to "grow the game".  But reality is we can't grow it.  It is too big due to development of the last 25 years that happened not for golf but for home lots.  And now banks and investors are taking over properties that were not financially sound and the fact is they need to close some of the golf holes within these properties.  BUT most have not yet accepted the FACT that we are keeping non functioning golf courses open because people own homes on them.  Eventually that will cease.  Meanwhile we have developed "feel good" programs like First Tee to say we are bringing people to the game.  Doesn't work.  We talk about 12 hole courses and larger holes etc but FACT is weekends make up 50% of golf rounds and now days fathers do not play golf on weekends like they used to.  With two earner families the father doesn't have saturday free.  AND golf should not try to take the place of kid time. 
But the answer is easy: we just need to shrink it and things will fall back in lace and golf will be fine.  So how do we do it?

Mike, I am not sure that "golf will be fine".  I think the game is past its heydey and in a serious decline for the following reasons:

1.  I have a good friend who is a fairly well known instructor,  he told me he has never been so frustrated with not only teaching but the game in general.  He says that appointments are frequently not kept,  and people do not even have the courtesy to call.  Quite often, during a lesson, the student stops to answer the cell phone or send a text.  At $125 an hour, this is unbelievable!     During a lesson, he gives his students things to work on including drills and exercises, it is often clear to him in the following lessons that no effort was taken to do the drills and exercises.  Frustration kicks in early, no one wants to do the work, yet high levels of results are expected.   We all know golf is a tough game, I spend many hours putting, chipping, etc. This new generation especially is not willing to do this.  This means frustration on the course and a very high attrition rate.

2.  The new generation has a very short attention span.  Everything is a tweet or text.  Golf is a long day out, I am not convined that this new generation is willing to invest 4+ hours a round, plus the time coming and going, plus the time to warm up.  

3.  There is no respect for the game anymore.  I don't remember the last time I have played a 4 hour round.   I have had to call the clubhouse at my club more than once, for groups on the greens for over 20 minutes, yes you heard right.  What in the name of God are they  doing out there, for the life of me I cannot figure it all out.   There are so many electronic devices out there, cell phones, GPS, etc, from a purist standpoint this has further contaminated our game.  I have played in tournaments where my team members could not get off their cell phones and spend time worried to death with yardages  marching off the yards and then verifying it with GPS.  HELP!!!!!!!!!!

4.  We have become a matriarchy, women rule.  Yes, they do.   And this profound sociological shift, will affect the volume of rounds played.  Women do love sports of course.  But women put first priority in their nest, thank God for them, because many of the men are sure not doing it.    Women are the storng ones now, they are the ones coming up in management they are running the households, they are doing it all.  It is becoming harder and harder to get a group together for a day out, let alone a long trip, because it seems to be an endless sales job with the wife to get out.  Seems more and more guys won't move without "permission" these days.  And some of them would rather stay home and play video games than get out and play some golf, that takes some work!    Guys have become awfully wimpy and whiny, yes women rule.  And this means less guys out there playing golf.  It used to be a snap to get a group of guys together for the anuual buddy trip.  Have fond memories of 36 hole days for a week at Pinehurst and MB.  Almost impossible now, can't get guys to commit.  They have to consult for hours and days  with their wives, they have to ponder for months before they can make a decison.  I say the buddy trip we have all come to cherish and look forward to is a dying institution.

5.  There is less and less knowledge of the tradiitons of the game and its history.  I am amazed as to how many times I play a course and no one can name the designer.  I am amazed at how many people have no idea where or what Pine Valley is.  I am amazed how many timesI have to hear that links courses are cattle fields.   I am amazed at people just get up and whack the ball and don't take a deep breath to enjoy the wonderful architectural elements and the wonderful nature.  Most golfers out there, especially the new ones, could care less!  And  am amazed at how many times I have to deal with a cart girl during a round, leave me alone. I am amazed at how many times I have to wait because people are buying food/beverage from the cart girl or at the turn.  And I am equally amazed at how a bunch of pot beliied old men, old enough to be the cart girls father or grandfather, feel this need to make flirtacious and sometimes even lewd comments.   And of course the poor girl takes it all, after all she needs the tips and would not dare tell the customer what they really think.    And the god awful, sugar laced fatty crap this food is, any wonder so many golfers out there look the way they do and are on as many prescriptions as they are.  Why can't we just get back to golf, the game, and appreciating the game for what it is.  It is so rich, but who really cares anymore.  

6.  And of course, there are the pure economics.   Clubs are expensive, balls are expensive, I am amazed at all the $200+ shafts out there, who is buying this crap!  I have demoed the best shafts out there and cannot tell the difference from how my offthe shelf OEM performs.   It is very expensive to take a trip for a week, when you have other priorities.  And the courses are not run by busines s people, how many tee time sheets are empty because they refuse to budge on their rates.  Because it might detract from the pereceived quality of the course.  Or GOd forbid, we let riff raff on, we have to preseve the "image".    How silly!  We have to get real about the economics here, everyone has their head in the sand!

The game is dying.   The average age at my course is well over 60.  Many guys over 70, good for them.  We need to replace these people , however, and the volume is just not there.  Many many clubs will be closing in the next 25 years.  I see the OEM equipment folks in for a huge awakening.  How many more years can you say that you clubs are longer and more forgiving than last years model and charge another $100 to justify this.  And why would anyone with half a brain, and I am being generous, who has some capital to invest, do so in a golf course.  .   Given all the costs and uncertainty, surely there are better places that entrprepeneurs will invest .  

A special group here, in this forum.   Such a love and passion for the game.   But this is a microcosm, not reflective of Joe Golfer.  And certintly not reflective of where Joe Golfer is going.  I see the day where golf will be an elitist sport again.  Limited access, for the few that can afford it.  I see sharp drops in demand.  The industry has eternally been optimistic,  i think this is pure foolishness, there is no reason to be optimistic, at least as the future of golf is concerned.  

Eric,
That's why there have always been private courses.
In every era there have been a list of rants that drove people to join a club that promoted behaviors they deemed compatible/appropriate.
I don't know of a cheaper membership than Palmetto, yet NONE of the problems(except I wish we had the beverage girl ) you cite above occur there.
the game is fine.....for the discerning consumer

[Sean_A]

The idea of cost per round IS the concept...but the idea of value per dollar is going to be the concept. You're correct that joiners are the most important people, but what membership model offers value for the 25 round a year guy?

There is no value in luxury. At 51 years old it is as important to me to be able to do something as how many times i do it. As a matter of fact the very definition of luxury may be the ability to throw value out the window. Even the Scots, as cheap as they may be, don't golf for the value.

JakaB

Why do you say there is no value in luxury?  To me, value means getting something at a fair price.  There is no inherent bias in this for or against expensive/luxury items.  That said, I think the best way to shrink the game is to continue offering little value to golfers. 

Ciao

[Ben Sims]

Mike,

I disagree with you on the time issue.  Mountain biking, skiing, snowboarding, triathlon; these are all rapidly growing sports among the 25-35 set.  Why?  Because they are sports that these folks engaged in or got into between the ages of 10-25.  So they continued to do them.  Those sports require just as much time as golf.  Yet young folks with kids are doing them.  They don't require a crazy amount of skill, and they aren't stuffy.

So in order to shrink golf back to its natural state, we must continue to keep golf as a rich white man's game.  We need continue to promote the primary interest in golf courses with private clubs while speaking longingly about affordable and interesting public golf.  We need to continue being afraid to press the public golfer into being a faster, more respectful player, further increasing the enjoyment gap between public and private golf.  

Lastly, and most importantly, we shouldn't be so sad that we're going to do all of this.  In the end, golf will be a better place with a little natural selection.  But don't blame it on the people not playing.  Thank the folks playing that don't want to evolve to let this evolution happen.

Oh, and thank Tiger Woods' mistresses. 

[Eric Strulowitz]

Eric,
That's why there have always been private courses.
In every era there have been a list of rants that drove people to join a club that promoted behaviors they deemed compatible/appropriate.
I don't know of a cheaper membership than Palmetto, yet NONE of the problems(except I wish we had the beverage girl ) you cite above occur there.
the game is fine.....for the discerning consumer
[/quote]

Many of the behaviors I cite are at PRIVATE courses.  

There is a big misperception, that just because people have money and class, at least what they think is class anyway, that the experience at a private club will somehow be superior.  Well, in some cases it might.  But rudeness, slow play, lack of respect for rules,  etc is becoming increasingly universal.  And management won't deal with it, because God forbid someone leaves and you have one less paying customer.   I have played many a 4.5 hour round at private clubs, found cigar butts and other litter on the greens and fairways at private clubs, and have been to many a private club where ball marks are not repaired and sand traps not raked.  I am a member of a private club only because of economics, play over 100 rounds a year with range and unlimited cart if I desire, for around 5K, daily fee this would not be possible .  I do  have to admit that generally conditions I play on are superior to most public tracks, and the pace of play better, but far from optimal.

And it is a shame that one has to even think about migrating to a private club in the hopes that it would be a safe heaven for many of the ills that plague our game.  If people would exercise common decency and respect, the daily fee experience would be every bit as good as the private.

I remember my most earliest days of golf, they were on stricly public courses.  There was respect for the group behind you, there was respect for the facilities, traps were raked, ball marks fixed.  And if you failed to conform, the ranger would let you have it.  I got it more than once myself,  they had nop roblem telling you to pick up and move on.   The ranger now is nothing but a hollow presence and a PR person.  I am so sick of them coming by with stupid expressions like "Sure beats a day in the office".  Cut the cute expressions and customer relations please,  keep the slow groups moving, give me a 4 hour round, and pounce on the clowns who fail to rake the traps and leave big ball marks behind!

[Eric Strulowitz]

Mike,

I disagree with you on the time issue.  Mountain biking, skiing, snowboarding, triathlon; these are all rapidly growing sports among the 25-35 set.  Why?  Because they are sports that these folks engaged in or got into between the ages of 10-25.  So they continued to do them.  Those sports require just as much time as golf.  Yet young folks with kids are doing them.  They don't require a crazy amount of skill, and they aren't stuffy.

So in order to shrink golf back to its natural state, we must continue to keep golf as a rich white man's game.  We need continue to promote the primary interest in golf courses with private clubs while speaking longingly about affordable and interesting public golf.  We need to continue being afraid to press the public golfer into being a faster, more respectful player, further increasing the enjoyment gap between public and private golf.  

Lastly, and most importantly, we shouldn't be so sad that we're going to do all of this.  In the end, golf will be a better place with a little natural selection.  But don't blame it on the people not playing.  Thank the folks playing that don't want to evolve to let this evolution happen.

Oh, and thank Tiger Woods' mistresses.  

Wow.  Double wow!

What a post.

Stuffiness is such a part of our game.  Some of the most obnoxious people I have met have been at upscale private clubs.  They sure don't know it,  think they are on some higher plane.  I have never equated class with money, sad that many do!

The original golfers on the original playing fields were everything but stuffy.  How this became a game of privalege and how golf became so much about class consciousness and keeping certain people out, that evolution would make for an interesting read.  There has been a lot of energy expended in the past  and energy still being expended in keeping people out.  For a variety of reasons.  golf is not an inclusive game, even though most golfers would say otherwise.   People pick up on this, young people have not the time, patience, interest,  or social skills for this pretense

People want to have fun without all the pretense and expeding valuable calories and time putting up a front and being someone and something you are not.   I golf for the game,  I play and go home, have no time for all the nonsense that is peripheral to the game.  That might be why the sports you cite are growing and popular among young people.  What could possibly be enticing being around a bunch of old farts who think they are better than everyone else, and if you are allowed to be on their playing field, you should somehow feel so privaleged .  And if you want to return to that playing field, you have to kiss up for how many hours or do something for them, is not access often tit for tat!  How many other sports is access tit for tat?  For this new generation, it is not worth the effort, there are many options out there without all the pretense and crap that is peripheral to golf.

[Lou_Duran]

FACT is weekends make up 50% of golf rounds and now days fathers do not play golf on weekends like they used to.  With two earner families the father doesn't have saturday free.  

Interesting thoughts.  What source can you cite to support this (the 50% and that fathers don't play on weekends)?  I tend to avoid weekends because the courses tend to be very busy.

To the extent that the # of golf rounds are correlated with disposable income, the data I've seen would suggest the opposite- i.e. two earner households make considerably more money.  It is true that people are marrying less and waiting longer, which, if you are right, would argue for more rounds, not less.  However, the trend is not nearly as strong among the college educated, which tend to have a greater golf participation rate.

I tend to agree with much of what Eric says (though not about equipment cost or the equivalency of public and private golf relative to manners, knowledge and  etiquette).  The industry built capacity to match the expected demand of the relatively well-off Baby Boomers.  We hear that part of the problem with declining rounds is that as the old folks leave the game, the back-fill from the younger generations is not there.  Income and cultural factors might be at play here.

My biggest concern is what happens as the Boomers enter retirement and face the double whammy of zero negative after tax returns on their savings AND the likely inflation resulting from redistributive policies through monetization of huge fiscal deficits as far as the eye can see.  In good times, old people fear outliving their savings and are careful managing their resources.  In these extremely difficult, confusing times, I fear that they will shut-off most discretionary spending and accelarate the decline.  Hopefully, my concerns aren't warranted.    
  

[Ben Sims]

Eric,

I want to be clear.  I disagree with how golf evolved in the US, but it is what it is.  I am a member of a private golf club.  I love my rounds there as much or more than any public golf experience I've ever had.  You wrote this:

For a variety of reasons.  golf is not an inclusive game, even though most golfers would say otherwise.   People pick up on this, young people have not the time, patience, interest,  or social skills for this pretense

Right you are.  Except I look at it differently.  I have time for the pretense.  So do many others on here.  There is a core of golfers that has the time for the pretense.  It's a good time to be me.  I can see more great golf than I ever could when golf was in the heyday of the Tiger Woods era.  So can all of my internet golf friends.  Golf is far from exclusionary to those that have the time for the pretense and are willing to accept the limitations of the higher echelon golf culture in the US.

Here's what needs to happen.

1)  Continue to appeal to the 10% of golfers that play 90% of the rounds.  Make their local rounds affordable, fun, and fast.  But make no mistake, they also justify the existence of the epic places we spend all our time writing about on here.

2)  Make the 90% of golfers that play 10% of the rounds welcome.  Make their local rounds affordable, fun, and fast.  But also don't pander.  They can step it up to category 1 if they are willing to deal with the pretenses you mentioned.

3) That's it.  No great mystery.  Golf is too big for its britches.  Let the Keisers, Youngscaps, Kohlers, Baksts, and others continue to inspire.  The other 98% of the golf world need to get with the program and get efficient, fast, and fun.  The private pretenses and exclusions are what they are.  I don't mind them and I doubt John Smith at local course X does either.  Unless local course X starts acting like they're private course X again, we'll all be fine.

[JESII]

Even the Scots, as cheap as they may be, don't golf for the value.

The hell they don't. What percentage of golf at the 10 most expensive golf courses in Scotland is played by Scots?

I do believe their local memberships are full.

Have you asked Melvyn about the costs of the game?

[JESII]

MM,

I've read it 5 times now and am still trying to figure it out.

I'm curious to hear how it changed your thinking...I'd also be interested to hear John say it again.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike Young:

I thought you asked a great "politically incorrect" question although the thread seems to be veering away from the nuts and bolts of what you asked.

Certainly, there are a lot of golf course developments in the US that can't support themselves nowadays.  The homeowners don't want a jungle in the back of their houses, and there are a few people who want to play golf, but not enough to support a real club.  What to do?

To me, it's fairly simple ... you need to get everyone's financial contribution to align with their particular interests.  The homeowner's association should be kicking in for basic course maintenance, if they don't want the value of their homes to decline further.  The golfers should pay to transform the course from "mowed" to "golf shape".  If there aren't enough golfers to support 18 holes, then reduce the main course to nine holes, and let kids play for free on the nine that the homeowners are just mowing down.