Wind

[Jud_T]

I played at Turnberry with gusts up to 60 (and rain) but that was only fun in a surviving the elements kind of fashion.  IMO a 1-2 club wind is ideal and most guys start getting their panties in a bunch around 3 clubs...

[Adam Clayman]

Adrian, I must question your numbers.

firstly, balls rolling on a green, is more a function of the HOC, than an unplayable wind.

35 mph, will not knock a ball off a tee, in my experience. And, allowing only 5 mph for a club, seems way off to me. I've always used 10 mph as a gauge, and it has not failed me.

5-6 club winds are about as extreme as it should get.

I'm with Niall, golf under mother natures influence is a far superior experience for a sportsman.

If one is not into the sport and only game, I can see why they would defer to calmer days.  
 

[Mac Plumart]

If one is not into the sport and only game, I can see why they would defer to calmer days.  
 

I'm stealing this Adam.

[Sean_A]

Adrian, I must question your numbers.

firstly, balls rolling on a green, is more a function of the HOC, than an unplayable wind.

35 mph, will not knock a ball off a tee, in my experience. And, allowing only 5 mph for a club, seems way off to me. I've always used 10 mph as a gauge, and it has not failed me.

5-6 club winds are about as extreme as it should get.

I'm with Niall, golf under mother natures influence is a far superior experience for a sportsman.

If one is not into the sport and only game, I can see why they would defer to calmer days.  
 

Adam

All I can say is you must be talking strictly summer conditions with plenty of space to allow for well struck low hookers running up very firm fairways.  A 30mph wind outside of dead summer (even in dead summer I would allow for more than 3 clubs!) with firm conditions is much more than 3 clubs.  I would say its more like 5 clubs - maybe more.  In essence, a 380 yard hole into to the teeth of 30mph becomes unreachable for me unless I hit my two best shots (I know from long experience at Burnham's 1st hole). 

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

I have little doubt that it would be almost impossible to keep a ball on a tee in a genuine 35mph wind.

A big factor here is where the wind speed is measured.  35mph measured 30 feet in the air will be much lower at ground level.  Another factor is the nature of the airflow.  On a wide open flat links course the wind may be close to laminar flow, giving a steady condition.  Inland, where trees are around or even on a more dunesy links, flow is likely to be turbulent, giving gusty, unstable conditions.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I have played Burnham many times where the 380 yard 1st hole cant be gotten in two shots, I have seen the 5th play a Driver 165 yards for everyone and in the same wind the 500 yard 13th play a 9 iron second shot. In fact many golf courses play like that in high winds, but thats still less than 35 mph. If its 50 mph a golf course should be closed.

Adam - Wind spped and HOC are obviously important, but they are together. I was referring to normal cut say 4mm.

[Bryan Izatt]

It occurs to me that one good place to benchmark playing in a steady wind is the Tierra del Sol course in Aruba.  The trade winds blow there at more or less the same speed (25 mph) and direction all day every day.  The divi divi trees are testament to the wind.

The ball does not blow off the tee nor does it get blown off the green.  The course is near the tip of the island with water on three sides and no trees.  RTJ II designed the course for the wind.  Upwind holes are short.  Downwind are long. 

Years ago when last I played it, one downwind par 5 was 600 yards and I reached in two.  On the other nine there was an upwind par 5 that played at 430 yards and took three solid shots to get there.  The difficulty added by the wind is reflected in the course rating - 73.9 on a par of 71 at 6,453 yards.  I doubt there are any courses in the world that are rated more than 2.9 strokes over par and are under 6,500 yards.  (Of course, somebody will find one  )

[Kevin Pallier]

Putting was impossible as balls would not stay still on the greens

That's my yardstick.

[Ross Tuddenham]

We had winds of around 50 mph a few weeks ago in the central belt of Scotland which resulted in severe weather warnings being issued and work places closed early for safety reasons.  I walked home from work that day and there is no way you could have hit a golf shot, as balancing and moving was hard enough never mind staying planted enough to hit the ball.  And I am sure the wind was only around 35 mph at that point.  When it did reach 50 trees and other large objects were felled.

When playing in high wind speeds I have often become tired of the experience well before the 18th if the wind is constant and strong as all control over the ball and strategy can be removed from the player.  Yes a brisk wind can provide an interesting challenge but 18 holes of just trying to play 4/5 clubs more while keeping the ball low hardly provides much variety.  This is worse when the routing means more holes play into the wind.

[Brett_Morrissy]

For mine, I do not think the wind speed is relevant in terms of measurement from a website or weather bureau, or even a local weather station, the wind changes and moves and speeds up (gusts) and slows down, so as golfers, we have no place making these uneducated estimates, at least you can actually measure the length of a fish.

What we can actually measure, and is particularly relevant to each individual golfer and their skill or strength level, is when we are playing a shot into a head on or quartering breeze, how many extra clubs did you require to hit your usual distance, assuming you know howq far you clubs in benign conditions.

So, on our trip to Bandon Dunes last year, we had across our four ball, and we were agreeable to the same number, that for the majority of the four day trip, we had 4-5 clubs of breeze (this was enough to get me kicked off our flight out of nth Bend, because the wind was too strong and they had to reduce the load!), and I guess over the two days that was equal to 75-150% of our handicap, eg play off 8, add 6 to 12 shots when playing well.

So, next time, when asked what was the weather like, use extra clubs as the guide, as that is an accurate description of what you actually did!

[Niall C]

Mark

I'll take your word on wind effect being less at ground level. Certainly when playing the fairly steep downhill 11th (?) par 3 which measures c.190 yards from where we played from, all 8 hit full tilt drivers directly into the wind and the nearest made the front edge of the green while no one else came within 10 yards. I suspect we would have done better hitting easy 3 woods with less spin. Modern drivers all seem to promote high ballooning ball flight which isn't very conducive to getting distance into the wind. Playing in those kind of winds is about control rather than power.

Adrian

Even allowing for Mark's point about actual wind speed as opposed to published wind speed, it was still strong enough to have straight shots deviate by 30 yards when the wind was side on. While the ball oscillated a bit on the greens it never rolled from a standing start due to the wind although allowance had to be made on for the wind in the line of the putt. I've no idea what the stimp was on the greens but I doubt it was very high even for links greens although they did roll very very well.

Overall the course was very playable if you tried to adapt to the conditions and I think that is the key. Sometimes its all about keeping the ball in play while at other times there's a bit more latitude to open the shoulders. To me thats golf.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

I played this morning in winds that were mid to high 20s mph.  At times in the round it did, indeed, become tricky keeping the ball on the tee.  On the most exposed tee it was difficult keeping balance to make a swing.  No sign of ball movement on longer cut winter greens.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wind will certainly expose the marginally hit shot

[Jeff_Brauer]

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[Jim Nugent]

A big factor here is where the wind speed is measured.  35mph measured 30 feet in the air will be much lower at ground level. 

What would the speed likely be at the ground?  btw, I read that over a body of water, the difference is not as great, though it still exists. 

[Mark Pearce]

Jim,

The flatter the area, the nearer laminar flow you achieve.  There'll always be significant drag on the ground but in very flat areas the curve means that wind speed stays higher nearer the ground.

[Mark Chaplin]

For anyone golfing today near the UK coast the inland waters forecast today is as follows Deal, RStG, Princes, Rye westerly force 6 to gale 8 decreasing to 4 to 5 later.

Westwood Ho!, Saunton, Burnham & Berrow, Royal Portcawl westerly force 5 to 7 occasionally gale force 8.

Royal Troon, Prestwick, Turnberry westerly force 6 to gale 8 occasionally severe gale force 9.

St Andrews, Muirfield, North Berwick westerly or north westerly 6 to gale force 8.

These forecasts and wind speeds are pretty accurate as the lives of fishermen depend on them. If anyone has played today let us know what it as like.

[Mark Pearce]

For anyone golfing today near the UK coast the inland waters forecast today is as follows Deal, RStG, Princes, Rye westerly force 6 to gale 8 decreasing to 4 to 5 later.

Westwood Ho!, Saunton, Burnham & Berrow, Royal Portcawl westerly force 5 to 7 occasionally gale force 8.

Royal Troon, Prestwick, Turnberry westerly force 6 to gale 8 occasionally severe gale force 9.

St Andrews, Muirfield, North Berwick westerly or north westerly 6 to gale force 8.

These forecasts and wind speeds are pretty accurate as the lives of fishermen depend on them. If anyone has played today let us know what it as like.

Mark,

It's less windy up here today than it was yesterday.

[Mark Chaplin]

Lovely at Hankley yesterday, light breeze and turned over the members for the champagne breakfast!

Hopefully Simon Holt, Martin Bonnar, Sean, Rihc or Jamie Barber has played today and can give us a report, whilst it's windy I think it playable.

You in London overnight on Thursday 26th January?

[Mark Pearce]

Yes.

[Niall C]

Wind will certainly expose the marginally hit shot

Patrick

I'm not so sure, I think it depends how you hit when you hit it flush. Sometimes you put too much spin on it and the wind just multiplies the effect. Best to play half to three quarter shots thereby making control easier. A marginally hit shot in my case means one that isn't hit well rather than one hit with too much draw or fade therefore in most instances I tend to get away with it.

Mark

When I played the other day I topped one shot due to the wind catching me at the wrong moment. I also "came off" a couple of putts due to the wind causing me to miss.

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

Patrick I'm always surprised just how little effect even a strong wind has on a perfectly struck shot. Anything less and the wind can be very cruel.

Mark - PM sent

[George Freeman]

I just posted this on Bob Huntley's Wind @ St. Andrews thread, but it works here too:

I know I've told this story before on GCA.com, but this thread warrants another account.  I planned a quick there-and-back trip to St. Andrews while visiting a friend in London in February 2008.  I lugged my clubs all the way from the States for that single round.  I had one day to play the course, so I would have played in almost any weather condition.

After arriving in the city the previous evening in a pretty solid rain (I still managed to walk the course before sunset), I was pleased to wake up with the sun shining through my window.  However, the second I stepped outside, I knew I was in for a wild ride. 

Per the starter, the wind was blowing 45 mph steady and gusting into the mid 60s.  I walked over to the tee sheet board and noticed 3-4 morning foursomes crossed out (with "R&A" and "New Club" next to the names).  Needless to say, the course was almost completely empty.  I dropped three balls on the flat putting green and watch in amazement as all three were blown right off the green.

The day started off with my playing partner's drive on #1, a ball that I believe would have probably travelled around 200 yards in no wind, get caught in a gust, balloon, and come flying back at us bouncing out of bounds behind the tee box.  I had to make sure to set my travel bag down parallel to the wind otherwise it would get blown down the fairway.  One was forced to tee their ball at a 45 degree angle into the wind, as this was the only way to keep the ball on the tee.

I had never seen anything like it before and haven’t since.  I didn’t keep score but had a blast bunting it around that day.  What I do remember was hitting the best 5-iron of my life on the Road Hole, against a crossing wind, and watched as it landed short of the green, rolled up the slope, and stopped about 15 feet from the hole.

It was a great day.  And now I can tell people I played the Old Course when even the locals stayed indoors!

[Simon Holt]

I have played everyday for a week bar Christmas day and reckon that the strongest I played in was 25mph on Boxing Day, which was pretty hard work.  Downwind we were knocking it pin high on 13 at North Berwick which is around 340 yards.

Into the wind was pretty hard going.  The 2nd was driver (on the beach!), 3 wood back onto land just shy of the 3rd medal tee, then chippy 8 iron from around 90 yards to a back pin!!

Played the New Course on the 27th in an 8 person foursomes match...amazing fun.  No wind and 8'C.  I do love that course; 4-15 is very, very good.

Today North Berwick was colder so I reckon that accounted for some of the lost distance.  It wasn't actually as windy as Boxing Day though.  Probably 15-20.  Out in the middle of the Forth it looked quite feisty so I reckon we were sheltered somewhat as it the wind was SWish.  Even now looking out the window the flags aren't doing anything too crazy.

Thank you for everyones insights.  I love playing in the wind and it would seem that most others do too.  It would also seem that a constant 20-25 mph is just about tolerable to score moderately well but anymore than that gets a little wacky.

I have to say there is no better feeling than catching a good drive downwind.....other than nailing a low driver off the deck into the teeth!!

[Mark Chaplin]

Hold onto your hats tomorrow storm for 10s for most of the country (inshore waters) tomorrow and the odd violent storm force 11.

There is also a rare phenomenal seas forecast in the East Northern Atlantic sector. Lovely word to describe the sea!