Wind

[Simon Holt]

Having been on the site for a couple of years now I have always been amused by stories of how some guy played in a 50 mph wind and still managed to shoot a good score.

'The locals told me I should have been here yesterday'   'The sticks were horizontal'   etc etc.  Its kind of like the golfing version of how big a fish you caught.  The wind seems to get stronger (bigger in the fish analogy) each time the story is told.

I reckon it is roughly 1 club for every 5 mph of wind.  That means in a 50 mph wind you would 'roughly' - and please dont preach to a links golfer about trajectory- hit 10 clubs more.  So a wood opposed to a wedge.  Having lived here my whole life, this year I played North Berwick in the strongest winds I have ever played in.  We hit full blown 3 woods 130, it happens, but what doesn't happen is that the course is deemed 'too easy' and certainly no one shoots well under par.

I am sure there are exceptions, so called dream rounds, and realise I am setting myself up to be shot at but anyone who played exceptionally well to par in a wind proclaiming it was over 50mph is either a)misinformed by the starter/caddy that day b) deluded  or c) full of .......

So.  How much wind do we really think is playable for the average guy?  I mean you can actually expect to shoot a decent score (for those that care) ?

I think anything above a constant 30 mph gets silly.  This is not to say I would still play for fun but a good score is not there for the taking. I know at most exposed courses, with reasonably fast greens, the balls would be rolling off them at anymore than this.

[Lou_Duran]

Depending on the course (# and type of hazards, conditions, green speeds, how exposed) and your definition of what a decent score is (within 50% of one's hdcp), 15-20 mph might be it.  I believe that most people tend to overestimate the wind (as they do how far they hit the ball); a consistent 10 mph wind might feel closer to 15-20.

[jeffwarne]

Having been on the site for a couple of years now I have always been amused by stories of how some guy played in a 50 mph wind and still managed to shoot a good score.

'The locals told me I should have been here yesterday'   'The sticks were horizontal'   etc etc.  Its kind of like the golfing version of how big a fish you caught.  The wind seems to get stronger (bigger in the fish analogy) each time the story is told.

I reckon it is roughly 1 club for every 5 mph of wind.  That means in a 50 mph wind you would 'roughly' - and please dont preach to a links golfer about trajectory- hit 10 clubs more.  So a wood opposed to a wedge.  Having lived here my whole life, this year I played North Berwick in the strongest winds I have ever played in.  We hit full blown 3 woods 130, it happens, but what doesn't happen is that the course is deemed 'too easy' and certainly no one shoots well under par.

I am sure there are exceptions, so called dream rounds, and realise I am setting myself up to be shot at but anyone who played exceptionally well to par in a wind proclaiming it was over 50mph is either a)misinformed by the starter/caddy that day b) deluded  or c) full of .......

So.  How much wind do we really think is playable for the average guy?  I mean you can actually expect to shoot a decent score (for those that care) ?

I think anything above a constant 30 mph gets silly.  This is not to say I would still play for fun but a good score is not there for the taking. I know at most exposed courses, with reasonably fast greens, the balls would be rolling off them at anymore than this.

30 mph is HOWLING.
a decent round in a 20-25 mph wind is great golf-particularly if a course is exposed.
(and we do see a bit of wind on the east end in spring  and fall)
Everybody I know tells me they went to Ireland and it was blowing 40 mph.
I have had quite few trips where they had the Black gale clouds all over the weather map-I found out what "gale season" was, but playing golf in 50 mph would be near impossible.
at 30 mph the ball is oscillating on the slowest of greens

I did hiit balls in the "storm of the century in '93"-60 mph winds-went through Miami and the entire east coast(blizzards further north)
I was hitting full sand wedges(hard on purpose) and the ball was landing BEHIND ME

[Mac Plumart]

Good question Simon.

I've played once or twice in 30 mph plus...and I got to tell you it was FUN!!!

Played Crail Balcomie with Colin...and I'm not sure how hard the wind was blowing but it was over 30.  We couldn't get our bags to stay standing up...balls blew off tees...balls wouldn't settle on the greens...rain was sideways and stinging.  It was awesome!!

Then the rain stopped, the wind died down to maybe 15ish....the sun came out...and it was pure magic.

Played one time at Kiawah with 30ish winds and gusts up to 40.  Tough.  I couldn't hear myself think that wind was so loud.  Again, one of my favorite rounds.

But could I have played those rounds on tight courses with thick lush rough...no.  So depending on the type of course...20ish is borderline unplayable.  But on a proper links course, is there a wind too high?  40 mph?

[Mark Saltzman]

I played this October in 40 MPH winds, with gusts to 65 -- there was a tornado warning issued.

My buddy and I went out because we figured when else could we ever play in winds like that.

Obviously, the course was unplayable, but matchplay was fun.  Playing a 550 yard par-5 into the fan required driver-3W-3W-7i-chip.

Putting was impossible as balls would not stay still on the greens.  That's too much wind.

[Alex Miller]

I played in Palm Desert as a front came in one time. It was a course near the windmills too, and I would feel safe in saying that for the back 9 it was blowing 40+ the entire time. I hit driver on a 160 yard downhill par 3 and went driver-3 wood -7 iron on the 410 yard 18th. I also somehow managed to shoot 38.

I didn't think it was silly because it's still just you and the course. Get the ball in the hole anyway you can and fight through it. It's sillier to play with puddles on the greens than in heavy winds.

[Mark Pearce]

In my first job I worked for a scientific consultancy.  The division I worked in had 5 wind tunnels, including one big enough to park two cars side by side.  As part of one job I worked on I was inside the large tunnel at speeds of up to 50mph.  At 50mph it is a real struggle to stand up.  You need to lean into the wind.  No-one has played golf in 50mph wind, it is simply not possible.  I doubt very much it is possible at 40mph.

[Bryan Izatt]

I have played in 50 mph winds on at least 3 occasions that I can recall.  Once at Pacific Dunes when the winds were reported by the weather service to be 50 gusting to 80.  Another time at Nairn when their weather guage was reading 50 mph.  And once at Rustic Canyon when the Santa Ana winds were reported to be 50 mph.  On all 3 occasions it was indeed difficult to stand up or take a stance to hit the ball or to make any progress walking into the wind.  The ball would blow off the tee.  Balls were blown off at least 5 greens at Rustic repeatedly so that it was impossible to finish the hole unless you chipped in (at least they allowed us to play for free since the course was basically unplayable).  The balls were occasionally blown off the greens at PD, but never at Nairn (slower stimps, I guess).  Scoring was just silly.  But we were traveling and were there, so we played.

As to Simon's question, I would say that up to 20 mph the average guy can score OK, but not to their handicap assuming the course has the width to accommodate the wind and the penal hazards also allow enough latitude for error.  Play the 17th at Sawgrass in a 20 mph wind and you're likely to be waiting there for a long time, especially in a crossing wind.  At 30 mph sustained winds even the best of the tour pros have trouble scoring - maybe 10% worse on average.

[Anthony Gray]

  It is a different game when the birds are walking.

  Anthony

[Mark Pearce]

I have played in 50 mph winds on at least 3 occasions that I can recall.  Once at Pacific Dunes when the winds were reported by the weather service to be 50 gusting to 80.  Another time at Nairn when their weather guage was reading 50 mph.  

Believe me, Bryan, if the wind was really blowing at 50 mph at ground level you were not playing golf.  A weather vane measuring 50mph may well reflect the windspeed at an elevated height and the surface speed would be lower.

[Sean_A]

Simon

I have absolutely no doubt most on this site over-estimate wind strength by a huge margin.  On most links, at 40mph it is unplayable as balls roll around on greens.  Sure, one can play in that weather, but its quite rare.  I recall playing Muirfield in 50 mph wind and it was a drag.  I couldn't reach fairways.  Putts blew back past me.  Bunker shots flew out of pots to have wind knock the ball back in.  I reckon, for most golfers, anything over 15ish mph becomes very difficult and if the wind is a steady 20-25 scoring 30 points stableford is a great score. 

Just to give an idea, when Buda was at Pennard the winds were 25-28ish for much of the last day and nearly everybody said it was too difficult.  This was on a course where on most holes one could hit it very wild and get away it.  On the second to last day the winds were more like 18-20 and folks were complaining.   I recall folks saying they thought the wind was about 40mph!  They didn't have a clue.

Ciao

[Jason Topp]

I try to combat the tendency to overestimate by checking the actual stats online.  15mph is a stong wind but its effects are mitigated significantly with trees in the area.  Course design also has a huge impact on what wind speed is enjoyable.

[David_Tepper]

"I reckon it is roughly 1 club for every 5 mph of wind"

Simon H. -

I saw a guy (who normally drives the ball 250-ish) hit driver pin-high into a 165 yard par-3 at Brora several months ago.
It was a very windy day.

DT

[Alex Miller]

"I reckon it is roughly 1 club for every 5 mph of wind"

Simon H. -

I saw a guy (who normally drives the ball 250-ish) hit driver pin-high into a 165 yard par-3 at Brora several months ago.
It was a very windy day.

DT

Yes! On my day I hit the same club on a similar length par 3. And i drive it about 280.

[Bryan Izatt]

Mark,

Granted the wind guage at Nairn was on the clubhouse roof.  As you may recall our university studies were in the same field. I'm pretty sure my estimation of the winds and the reported wind measurements were close to reality.  Regardless, if it was 40 and not 50, the conditions were not really playable in the normal sense.  If there was a tournament it would have been suspended on those days.

The three instances I referred to were significantly worse that back in September when I played Carnoustie in the winds of Hurricane Irene (wasn't it?).  The wind warnings were for 80 mph, but they never got there, I'm sure.

[Chris DeNigris]

Our first day at Lahinch this past Oct was the windiest I've ever played in. The weather service said low 30s in mph but I think that was sustained...gusts are a whole different story..Some gusts had to be close to 50. At times I felt a little like Jim Cantori standing in the middle of an intersection....Driver on the Dell from 150 yd markers into the teeth didn't quite make the green (250 to go 150) so I figured it was at least a 6 club wind at that point.

Even though the course was phenomenal it was too windy to be considered fun...although it did provide a good perspective. Our 2nd round the following day was pure heaven with a measly 20mph breeze to contend with.

[Tim Martin]

Anything north of 25 mph sustained regardless of how high the gusts are make it over the top difficult and not much fun. Mark Pearce`s experiences with the wind tunnels let you know that most of us do overestimate wind speeds by quite a bit.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have enjoyed some very good rounds at Bandon Dunes in 6 club winds. It is the only place where I remember such strong winds for an entire round or in that case many afternoon rounds.

[Jon Nolan]

The one time I played 50+ mph winds (w/rain) it cost me about 50 strokes and that's applying the ROG in a VERY generous fashion.  Think about it, that's less than 3 strokes per hole when distance control was non-existent and direction control was, at best, +/- 20 degrees.  I'm actually fairly proud I even finished.

Lahinch at 25-30 mph was borderline stupid but still enjoyable.  As a bonus we finished that round in the dark.  And the back of beyond in Clare in the dark is REALLY dark. 

I figure I'm an average guy.  Index in the 14 or so range.

[Greg Chambers]

I hit a nice knock down five iron into a santa ana wind on a 155 yard par 3 that came up twenty yards short just the other day.  25mph sustained gusting to 45.  Tough to play in.

[Niall C]

A few years back when the Open was at St Andrews and they had strong winds, I played in the medal at Glasgow Gailes on the saturday of the Open and shot 77 off a 9 handicap. It was by a long stretch my best round ever, not my lowest, but my best round. Bogied the last two holes as well. It was the 3rd best gross score in the medal. Just one of those days.

I used to play in the Kiwi at Gullane for several years with the same fourball and on a number of occasions we played in the kind of wind Mark referred to. No chance of a half decent score but great fun when playing a match as we always did.

The last time I played in that kind of wind was at Castle Stuart back in Sept/October when the pro shop claimed it was 35 mph. Whether or not that is correct I can tell you I managed to get on in two at the uphill par 5 12th from the very back tees so it was certainly blowing a good bit. Unfortunately I was in a 3 ball so didn't have any kind of match going and there was no reason to keep a score particularly when the holes into the wind were played off the very back tees.

Niall

[Mark Chaplin]

In May at Glasgow Gailes it was exceptionally windy, trollies blowing over 200yd 8 irons and no one could reach the fairway on the next hole. It was a 5-6 club wind.

In the afternoon we went to Western Gailes the wind stiffened and the clubhouse gauge had it a steady 50-60mph. It never dipped below 50mph and the strongest gust was 82mph. We tried to play two or three holes but could barely standup and the strong gusts blew along golf bags laying on the ground. When we returned to the clubhouse the strongest gust had gone up to 88mph which is officially hurricane force.

I once played a Kent event at and on one hole I hit a solid driver 175yds, the field ranged from +2 to about 4. My partner shot level par and the next best score was 80 so he won by 8 or 9 shots over a solid field. by far the best round I've ever witnessed.

Simon I reckon on 10mph to be a club then going up every 5 or 6mph per club.

[Tony_Muldoon]

I used to sail and windsurf and our bible was the Beaufort scale.  My nightmare was trying to progress a 50’ sailing craft into the wind blowing down the Thames. Even with the engine full on we couldn’t progress.  We had but one hour’s notice a Hurricane was developing.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale



Force   Wind
(Knots)   WMO
Classification   Appearance of Wind Effects
         On the Water   On Land   
0   Less than 1   Calm   Sea surface smooth and mirror-like   Calm, smoke rises vertically   
1   1-3   Light Air   Scaly ripples, no foam crests   Smoke drift indicates wind direction, still wind vanes   
2   4-6   Light Breeze   Small wavelets, crests glassy, no breaking   Wind felt on face, leaves rustle, vanes begin to move   
3   7-10   Gentle Breeze   Large wavelets, crests begin to break, scattered whitecaps   Leaves and small twigs constantly moving, light flags extended   
4   11-16   Moderate Breeze   Small waves 1-4 ft. becoming longer, numerous whitecaps   Dust, leaves, and loose paper lifted, small tree branches move   
5   17-21   Fresh Breeze   Moderate waves 4-8 ft taking longer form, many whitecaps, some spray   Small trees in leaf begin to sway   
6   22-27   Strong Breeze   Larger waves 8-13 ft, whitecaps common, more spray   Larger tree branches moving, whistling in wires   
7   28-33   Near Gale   Sea heaps up, waves 13-19 ft, white foam streaks off breakers   Whole trees moving, resistance felt walking against wind   
8   34-40   Gale   Moderately high (18-25 ft) waves of greater length, edges of crests begin to break into spindrift, foam blown in streaks   Twigs breaking off trees, generally impedes progress   
9   41-47   Strong Gale   High waves (23-32 ft), sea begins to roll, dense streaks of foam, spray may reduce visibility   Slight structural damage occurs, slate blows off roofs   
10   48-55   Storm   Very high waves (29-41 ft) with overhanging crests, sea white with densely blown foam, heavy rolling, lowered visibility   Seldom experienced on land, trees broken or uprooted, "considerable structural damage"   
11   56-63   Violent Storm   Exceptionally high (37-52 ft) waves, foam patches cover sea, visibility more reduced       
12   64+   Hurricane   Air filled with foam, waves over 45 ft, sea completely white with driving spray, visibility greatly reduced       
________________________________________


So let’s rewrite these for golfers to observe.


1 Imperceptible to the man on the fairway unless there’s a convenient chimney smoke from the clubhouse.

2 Can just tell wind direction when you toss a few pieces of grass up.  Caddies at St Andrews now offer you two more clubs than you planned to use.

3 Clubhouse flag shows some life.  Long grass moves. You partner lights up a stinking stogie.

4 Long rough starts to lie in the winds direction.  Time you start to add a club (a bit late really).  Take care which direction you choose to stand when nature calls.

5 This is the reason why old guys wear plus fours and socks, Flares have no place on a golf course. 

6 Stand bag refuses to live up to its name.  Ears are getting such a battering you can’t hear yourself think – this is the reason why Scots wear ski hats in August!

7 Bag is now rolling away and heading for clubhouse (if you’re lucky) if you are sensible you’ll follow it.

8 a wedge hit downwind gets no more than 20’ high.  This is now less a game than some experimental time.  GIVE UP


9 Time to head for home before the roads get blocked.


10 Even if you do stay on the course no one at GCA will believe you so what’s the point!

11 Liar

12 Big liar.

[Niall C]

I played yesterday in a breeze that would be a 7 on Tony's scale, well at least according to the weather website I was looking at. Eight of us played at Gullane 2, playing a stableford sweep and two fourball games. Having kept the card I can tell you that the course measured c.5,900 yds and is a par 71. The best stableford score came from the 18 handicapper with a score of 38 (a meeting of the handicap committee convened in the bar straight after !), followed by a 32 from a 8 handicapper, a 30 points from a 9 handicapper (me), two scores of 29 from a 9 handicapper and 8 handicapper followed by 3 other scores in the twenties. Of those other scores at least one of them didn't finish several holes because he couldn't win the hole ie. he was concentrating on the matchplay only.

I suspect if the same eight went out on a calmer day the scores wouldn't have been huge better but they undoubtedly would be better overall. And while the stableford scores weren't the best, the matches were keenly fought with only one hole won by the last man standing.

I can honestly say it was the most enjoyable round of the year. Nothing better than making allowances for a strong wind and trying to manufacture shots. An absolute blast.

Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think at 25-30 mph the ball will move on the green and at 35 mph you cant tee a ball up and it stay on the tee. Only once have I played when that happened and it was NOT FUN missing 3 foot putts and the wind blowing the ball off the green. 20 mph is a 4 club wind, you can get gusts of course but proper golf is impossible much past 25 mph.