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Don_Mahaffey

Re: Green approach construction methods
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2001, 07:56:19 AM »
Lou, TE Paul,
We own a deep tine aerifier. We bought it because we had areas in our fwys and apps that were very compacted and had less than 2" roots. Obviously, these areas also did not drain well as the water ran off. Aerification done right increases the macropores in the soil, thus increasing the air exchange and the percolation. In our case we had a hard layer 2" - 10" under the surface that once we penetrated we were able to increase percolation and aeration porosity resulting in deeper roots and healthier grass. This was not a one time deal, and we continue to deep tine most of our short grass each summer and follow with a gypsum application. Another technique I have seen used to combat the situations you describe are drill and fill using the Floyd McKay machines. This is not cheap, but I have seen it work.

Lou, Mike makes a very good point about the drains in your collection areas. They may look OK to the eye, but they need to set perfectly to work perfectly. One common mistake I see, especially with bermuda grass, is the slopes to the drains are not steep enough. I forget the recommended slope for bermuda, but I think it is in the 5% range. You can remedy the situation with some additional drainage work.

TE Paul, in your case the key thing to remember is you have an ongoing problem on your hands that is not going to be overcome by any one shot deal. In your case, deep tine followed by wetting agents, done twice a year may work.    
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Green approach construction methods
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2001, 08:32:34 AM »
Tom Doak mentioned California Greens in a post above and I thought I would add this link for those of you interested in the specs. A "true" Ca. green has no organics, no gravel layer, and contrary to conventional wisdom, tighter sand specs than USGA recommendations. I have built Ca. greens and I believe they perform very well in the right environment. They should have a higher Ksat then most USGA greens, and they should dry out more completly, but not as uniformily as USGA. IMHO, Ca. greens work best when bent is grown in a stressful environment with poor water quality. If you've got crappy water, you need to be able to clean those salts out of the root zone, a well built and well managed Ca. green should perform well under these circumstances.

http://www.sandfinder.com/california_greens.htm
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:12 PM by -1 »

TEPaul

Re: Green approach construction methods
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2001, 03:04:24 PM »
Don Mahaffey:

I think I love you!! You may have confirmed the solution to the problems I've been struggling with and trying to figure out for so long. I suspected as much, but.... Our super will agree with what you said, I believe, but it's so encouraging to have another guy out there (you) I can point my people to in my effort to figure this out and do something constructive about it!!

Love and kisses and a super Happy New Year to us both!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom Doak

Re: Green approach construction methods
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2001, 06:23:01 AM »
Don:  That's Lubbock in a nutshell for you.  I'm glad to hear that it sounds like we're headed the right direction, although a lot of this is Dave Wilber's idea so I'm not too surprised.

Thanks to everyone else for sharing their experiences.  I had no idea this was becoming so common!  More than half of our projects have been built on sand, so I'm spoiled.

One thing I forgot to mention is that one of the main reasons we're going this way is that the approaches in Lubbock will be dormant for a lot of the winter golf season.  In that situation, even sparse irrigation for the greens will get the approaches and surrounds wet, and the only way they'll dry out quickly is DOWN, since the grass won't soak up any moisture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Green approach construction methods
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2001, 07:38:05 AM »
DonM:

You're 12/30/11:32am post looks like a valuable one but it's got some technical stuff in there I'm not familiar with. My particular goal (problem) is definitely in another environment and probably much different medium but I'm hoping some of what you're saying and explaining is going to make our goal a little clearer! I've got your # and I'll be calling. Thanks so much!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »